Priceless.....although, I thought the "stare" would have taken sevenm minutes. Laughter is the Best Medicine. Dems may wan to remember that in November.

Hey where's the Dem Convention's schedule? Oh yeah, I guess it doesn't matter because no one was watching anyway! LOL!

Has anyone heard al-Queda's slogan???? It's Anyone but Bush" sound familar? HMMMM the dems agree with al-Queda! NICE!

Actually, according to these media reports, the opposite is true:

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/04...

In comments addressed to Bush, the group said:

"Kerry will kill our nation while it sleeps because he and the Democrats have the cunning to embellish blasphemy and present it to the Arab and Muslim nation as civilisation."

"Because of this we desire you (Bush) to be elected."

>>Has anyone heard al-Queda's slogan???? It's Anyone but Bush" sound familar? HMMMM the dems agree with al-Queda! NICE!

How will Kerry do this? He still hasn't revealed his "secret plan" yet? How would the terrorist know what the Kerry admin would do, we don't even know!
Think about this, whose convention are they worried about? According to several articles I have read they believe that the attack will take place on Spetember 2. 60 days before the election, and the night of President Bush's speech at the convention.

I have this article: It talks about the up coming attack and how al -Qaeuda wants anyone but Bush.
http://www.washtimes.com/na...

Now, "Anybody but Bush" just happens to be a slogan used by the left. "Anybody but Bush" happens to just perfectly explain why they support Kerry. You go out and ask your average Democrat voter why you're voting for Kerry, the answer you get back: Anybody but Bush. Now, granted, this is an intelligence official, not bin Laden using the slogan, but they think that if bin Laden is going to launch an attack or Al-Qaeda is going to launch an attack on this massive a scale prior to the election, they're obviously trying to affect the election, and the conclusion is that they'd like to get rid of Bush.

A Moonie Times pump piece written by Bill Gertz whose been used as a tool before. Not exactly an example of JOURNALISM.

>> have this article: It talks about the up coming attack and how al -Qaeuda wants anyone but Bush.

The article was from the Washington Times. It is a very reputable paper. Why are you more inclined to believe the Reuters article?
My point to your article is the ACTIONS of the terrorist haven't shown they want to harm Kerry. The Dem Convention came and went and nothing happened, but there has been plans to disrupt the upcoming election on the very date of the pres. speech. If they didn't want Kerry then they would have done something to hinder his chances.
Furthermore, I don't believe what terrorist say anyway.

You two should just exchange email addresses. It appears no one is talking but you. I can almost guarantee that you won't read this or any other book, news article, etc., that might shed some light on the truth, but in order to know what is really going on in the world, you both should allow yourselves to objectively study both sides. By reading your previous statements, I know you won't, however. Here is a link, and if you have a few bucks to spend (maybe you could procure this from your local library) you might just try to learn something. There are always two sides to a story, and you seem Hell bent on sticking to your side regardless if there's any truth to it. The Holocost has two sides...the Nazis, who killed the Jews, and the Jews. Both have their own stories to tell, but if you only listen to the side of the Nazis, then you will never know the whole truth. Give it a try. You might learn something.

http://www.bridgeoflove.com/

Click on Alice In Wonderland and the World Trade Center Disaster.

You know I think your right! Just like how George Bush planned hurricane Charley! He did it so he could "come to the rescue" all of those Floridians all to make sure that he would have Florida in the bag come November.

Did you hear about the possible terror attack planned this November? Bush has planned to stage a terrorist attack on Novemeber 2 in LA! He has planned an evacuation so that millions will evacuate leaving the freeways in gird lock so all the Democrats can't vote!

Former Rep US Senator: You're full of shit. I hate to say this, because Peacemaker will lecture me, but your brain is as easy as a Vegas whore if you believe this crap.
You wrote: "...but if you only listen to the side of the Nazis, then you will never know the whole truth. Give it a try. You might learn something."
Since when have any of us quoted we listened only to the Nazi side of Holocaust history? Sounds like one of those indirect accusations that we, as proud conservatives, are Nazi Fascists. Actually, I prefer the Jewish testimony that reveals the Nazis killed over 6 million Jews, and another 6 million poles, slavs, homosexuals, handicapped, etc. Please tell me the "second side" to the holocaust issue. You mean the revisionists, who attempt to convince people the Jews and others died from Typhoid, not gas chambers. No way, punk. You can believe that shit, or as you say: "Listen to Both sides."
This literature on "Bridge of Love" isn't objective; it's subjective hate literature and beyond reaction by anyone with intelligence. You're right: I'm not going to read this crap; I wouldn't even use it on my ass for toilet paper. It's worthless garbage, written for mindless haters who prefer anarchy and chaos in the form of communism, fascism and despotism.

Let’s enlighten readers to David Ickes, shall we:

Shape-shifting reptiles (Illuminati) have ruled humanity for millennia. They are responsible for all that’s wacky on this planet. Ickes version of the “Matrix”. Hitler was an example of bad breeding on the part of the Illuminati. It would appear that the Illuminati are responsible for the War in Iraq (GW must be a King Snake, or something). A Zulu shaman let David in on the secret. “THEY LIVE”. Did Rowdy Piper find out as well? (Kerrysucks, did I spell his name right)

Fluoride is an intellectual suppressant, added to toothpaste and water….hmmm…Illuminati?

The 9/11 conspiracy- not Osama, but “much closer to home.” Hmmm…Illuminati?

The English royalty performed satanic rituals on children, as well as Clinton, Bush, Kissinger, et al.

Princess Diana was murdered as part of a global plot. Somehow, he connects the murder with interconnecting global bloodlines that have ruled the world for millennia, as well as origins of Christianity. Did she know the secret of the Illuminati, or did she see Charles sacrificing a youngchild?

Something is happening in 2012. He mentions a countdown to 2012.

Hey Neocon!

I think it is the Iluminati, man! LOL!

I love the "rainbow of love" man, it's so groooovy!
I think David Ickles is antisemitic!

Did you read this? I knew it! Right about time the Iraqi war began the Israeli Intel said this, and I always thought it was the case for WMDs! Please Read!

http://www.washtimes.com/na...

Wow, that's some strong stuff Mr. Ickes has ingested, to warp his perspective…

A funny Story,

I knew this guy that lived across the street from one of my best friends. He would have us come over all the time to watch these videos that outlined how the Free Masons (Illuminati) were running the world. I learned about the Owl on the dollar bill that's always watching us. I learned that the Exxon logo is really the sign of the double cross and the Shell logo is the rising sun. I even learned that every year the former presidents of the United States meet in a secret field in the dead of night and do a ritualistic dance around a burning cross wearing hoods and robes. The guy that had these videos smoked alot of sherm and was paranoid out of his mind. He used to sit at his front door with binoculars staring at the apartment complex across the street because "I know the FBI is watching me, I want them to know that I'm watching them too". I'm sure he would really dig that book!

IF you hate the United States, no one is forcing you to live here. why don't you move to Canada!

I don't hate the US! :) It's the best country in the world!

This site is dying! Where is everyone?????

Neocon,

For fun lately I have been lurking over at the AIr America message boards. It is so funny! Those people are crazy! I don't post at all, but it makes for some entertainment. They think that Al Fraken is the most intelligent person on the face of the Earth! I wonder if they knoe he is a washed up comedian from SNL?

http://airamericaplace.com/

Here is the site, just go to the message Board. They have a conservative thread too, Conservatives are only suppose to post there.

Kerrysucks, goodmorning. I've gone to the AirAmerica website. Very entertaining. Check out this article off of National Review Online: http://www.nationalreview.c...

It's very sobering, and quite depressing. This is one consequence of the slap-happy peace-niks who can't fathom fighting fore one's life and freedom.

Peace CANNOT be won without war. It's a sad fact of life, but it is much preferable to wholesale annihilation of hundreds of thousands.
Ghandi's non-violent tactics were used against the British Empire, which at that point was shredded and beaten.

The Sudanese people must be considered more important than the so-called "sovereign government" of Sudan, who are murdering thugs.

That is depressing! That is why the UN is useless. Time and time again they sit back and use their sanctions, but what good does it do when people are being raped and pillaged. Look at Saddam, he went on torturing Iraqis all those years while the UN "sanctioned" them. It doesn't hurt the government anyway it hurts the people.

Let's face it holding hands and having candlelight vigils to "Help" these suffering people has never been the answer. There is a cost to freedom. What if in 1776 everyone grabbed hands and sang and demanded we did not go to war for our freedom against England? We will just stop buying tea! Where the hell would we be today?

Neocon,

What do you think of Kerry's magic hat? LOL! Christmas in Cambodia? It reminds me of the Dead Kenedys' song "Holiday in Cambodia"
Where is Peacemaker?????

Neocon,

I found this on http://www.townhall.com. It is an awesome sight! I thought you might like this;

http://www.townhall.com/col...

It's about a book coming out about Europe and the UN.

"Former Rep US Senator: You're full of shit. I hate to say this, because Peacemaker will lecture me, but your brain is as easy as a Vegas whore if you believe this crap. "
LOL! Neocon, I have no plans to lecture you...not about this, anyway. For once, we agree on something. :-)
Personally, I have a lot to say about what's going on today regarding Powell, Rumsfeld and the Pentagon, Bush's brainless statements of late, the not-going-to-take-place debates, and so on, but I have to unplug today. I'll be offline for awhile, and just wanted to answer the question, "Where is Peacemaker"? I've been in the middle of getting things together to move, and I've had a couple surgeries to keep me occupied. I'm fine, but today is moving day and I'm unplugginng, and am not sure just when I'll get back on. Keep going and don't let this forum die out before I get back. I'll keep all my info stored in my little brain so that when I come back, I'll lay it all out so you can both (you and KS) jump my ass, as expected, even though you will both be wrong as Hell. :-)
Take care of yourselves and Keep the Peace. Oh, and relax KS, you can bet your sweet ass that nothing is going to happen at the Republican Convention, so relax and enjoy it.

I will Peacemaker! It will be a great convention I'm sure, or at least much better than that horrible show the DNC put on! :) I haven't been on very much because I have been in my Classroom getting ready for school to start. I have been dying to get your take on the issues as well!

I found this site that I think you will like, maybe even perhaps post on. Neocon should check it out as well, I'm sure he will find it as entertaining as I do.
Here it is;
http://www.democraticunderg...

Go to it Peacemaker! your people are calling! Just kidding but please check it out!

Good to hear from both of you. Peacemaker, I love your attitude. Finally, you take off the "neutral" gloves and show your colors. I'm sure Kerrysucks is as proud as I am to have encouraged your fighting spirit (just laugh).

Hi Neocon!

I have been watching this swift vet stuff ! WOW! Kerry is in a pickle to say the least. Hannity has been looking at some videos of Kerry. I heard it is suppose to be explosive! Did you see Hannity and Colmes on Friday? Bob Dornan was on. He had the flags that Kerry and his comrads burned and he had pictures too! It was awesome!

Peacemaker, my sweet ass and I know that the Republican convention is going to be great! :) Get well, get settled in and hurry back so Neocon and I can open a can of whoop as on you! LOL!

Kerrysucks, it's great to hear from you again. The Swiftboat topic is fascinating. I've deliberately stayed away from expressing my opinion on Kerry's actions in service. What's fascinating is how the media and Dems have gone absolutely nuts over this.
Bush never blinked over the 9 plus months of hate speech, or even the Farenheit 9/11 shit. The libs fainted with delight, the Dem leadership joined hands and watched together, and Moore sat next to Carter at the convention (as wellas talking all he wanted). But an independent group comes out against Kerry......hell on earth. How dare anyone attacka liberalwith the same medicine?

EXACTLY!!!!!!! They are calling the Swift Vets liars, but if you are Kerry or his few vet supporters you get a free pass because anything THEY say is truth! The media has bent over backwards investigating the Swift Vets , but they don't look into the charges that Kerry might be lying?? When they were going after Bush's record in the National Guard they demanded answers! Total double standard!
Now the MSM won't even be showing the McCain or Rudy's speech! Unbelievable!
Have you been lurking on Swiftvets.com? I have been reading the posts, really interesting stuff! Go to the sight I gave Peacemaker too, it is a riot!

The two speeches last night were quite excellent and stirring. McCain 's focus on the War on Terror was unwavering through the entire speech. Giuliani's speech was equally strong and to the point; unfortunately, Joshua started getting antsy and I had to take him to bed (missed about half the speech).
I also missed the wives of several victims of 9/11. From what the bloggers summarized, they were stirring.
So far, so good.

Rudy's speech was effective, and it looks like the Republicans have to resort to Kerry bashing to make their plea, given the underperforming economy and their reluctance to address changing paradigm of work in the 21st century. Strange how all the Democrats are lauded as ABB but it's the Republicans that are going the Kerry-bashing route. Democrats, for all intensive purposes, few exceptions aside (Sharpton) did not do any Bush bashing at their convention, instead adopting a message of hope and optimism.

The comparisons to Churchill are laughable - comparing a spoiled frat boy that owes all to privilege to a genuine war commander is a giant stretch. Though, the post war fate of Churchill is not one that I guess they think is desireable.

McCain's speech was low key and might be effective when preaching to the already prosletyzed, but I don't buy the Iraq defense he offered. That's like me saying that I have to kill you because I believe at some point you're going to kill me. Wow, what a twisted form of rationalization for an illicit action against a sovereign nation that threatened the U.S. NOT. Mrs. Naum, a big McCain fan, was not swayed by the speech even if she thought he made some good points.

And like I said in a call to Vernon's show last night, I took a sip from my drink every time somebody mentioned 9-11. And it was a good thing it was just Kool-Aid I was drinking…

>>The two speeches last night were quite excellent and stirring. McCain 's focus on the War on Terror was unwavering through the entire speech. Giuliani's speech was equally strong and to the point; unfortunately, Joshua started getting antsy and I had to take him to bed (missed about half the speech).
I also missed the wives of several victims of 9/11.

"The comparisons to Churchill are laughable - comparing a spoiled frat boy that owes all to privilege to a genuine war commander is a giant stretch. Though, the post war fate of Churchill is not one that I guess they think is desireable."

The comparisons are right on. He is reffering to someone who believes in what they are doing, and stands up to the scrutiny. Reagan was another one. He stood against communism and did what he thought was right. The libs HATED Reagan. He was accused of being a war monger just like they acuse Bush of. Bush believes what he is doing is right. He looked at the evidence from the CIA, UK Israli, etc. We live in a different world now, we can't sit around and do nothing and hope these terrorist won't attack us. We have to be proactive. Clinton didn't do a whole lot in the war or terorism and look what happened. Look at France and Russia. Both Countries have had recent attacks against them. You can't appease these people. Besides I still don't know what Kerry's plan is. One day he is for the war, then he is against it.

Of course The Republicans were going to talk about 9/11! That is an important issue. Look back at all the presidents that were "war time" presidents. They all ran on their war record. 9/11 is one of the most defining moments of our time. Besides the Dems talked about 9/11 at their convention.

Kerry bashing? The Dems have called Bush every name from Hitler to 'spoiled frat boy" but that is just fine, and Giulianni points out Kerry's flip flops and Dems are ready to loose their minds. He even pointed out how honorable it was that Kerry served, and the Reepublicans applauded.

Naum, the republicans don't have to Kerry bash. He's done that to himself. And thanks to his centerpiece "I have what it takes to lead, because I served in Vietnam"; he's in trouble. Your brand of attacking is vastly different from mine. Moore's lies were lauded as "factual"; Wilson is still being excused by liberals despite the gaping holes in his story. Everyone on the left joined the chorus, "Bush let it happen", and cheerfully exclaimed Clinton was a champion of security. Howard Dean is constantly putting his fat ass in his mouth when he speaks, but is given a free-pass of critiscism. Not surprising frankly.

I didn't expect you would buy anything said last night. I'm well aware of your thoughts on the war (your goggles are on, Naum).

"That's like me saying that I have to kill you because I believe at some point you're going to kill me. Wow, what a twisted form of rationalization for an illicit action against a sovereign nation that threatened the U.S. NOT."

Your analysis for pre-emption is lacking, Naum. How many times have we heard of abused women pre-emptively killing the beater husband knowing full well that they would kill them first?
Butlet's follow the logic of your analysis:

I suppose we could simply wait for the next attack. That's an interpretive conclusion, after all.

I suppose we could have been satisfied with the inspections in Iraq, despite a large inventory of unaccountable weapons.

I suppose we should have simply left Iraq and lifted sanctions(as the UN was prepared to do), despite leaving his nuclear labs, scientists, capabilities etc. All he would have needed was to simply procure the ingredients. Interesting how little liberals discuss the UN sponsored Oil for Food Program and its tremendous successes to Saddam and UN members, friends and partners (but not to the people). Interesting also, that despite KNOWN connections to Al Qaeda and other groups, Saddam the billionaire (thanks to the UN in large part)would never have funded, or provided sanctuary to terrorists to destroy Israelandf other targets associated with the U.S.
Yeah, yeah, he wasn't involved with 9/11, but his money, connections and re-implemented weapons programs would have found their way into another disaster.

I suppose Clinton et al. were lying between 1998-2003 (including Kerry) when they all sponsored regime change. That was all talk, eh? Well, 9/11 made it all real and Bush made the right choice.

Britain and Europe held a similar opinion prior to 1939. They also despised pre-emptive action against Germany. They weren't a security threat. Try using your analysis on that one. Was 50 million deaths worth the principle of not waging "pre-emptive" action?

The twelve years of unenforced sanctions due to Saddam's invasion of Kuwait went unfettered, while he killed thousands of his own people. Yes, Bush I fucked up allowing him the use of helicopters to destroy resistance that might have toppled his regime. But European twisted morals prevented us finishing a job that should have been done in 1992. Not this time. This time, we finished the job. Hardly twisted rationalization, particularly after the horrific context of 9/11.

You also opposed our actions in Bosnia. That was pre-emptive, as was the war in Korea and Vietnam. Hell, for Bosnia, you can blame the spineless socialist freaks in the UN for bickering, as leftist intellectuals do, about the definition of Genocide. They waited, waited, waited while hundredsdied. A shameful repeat of what they promised to not repeat ever again. Rwanda, Sudan.... Naturally, the peace loving, champions of poverty, human rights and slave labor are loathe to go in with force and save people. I guess it's simply "social darwinism."

To get back to WWII; I have no doubt that had Hitler not declared war on us shortly after Pearl Harbor, WE would have pre-emptively done so, despite the fact they were "sovereign" and not a direct threat to our country".

FDR, and rightly so, reminded everyone about Pearl Harbor in his re-election campaign. I hope you didn't go thirsty at the Dem convention, it seems they want to forget 9/11.
I prefer we not forget. This war in Afghanistan and Iraq has the potential to start a domino effect on the most contentious area in the world.
Naturally, you'll think the effect will be negative, but I'm confident it'll be positive.

What about North Korea? They're held back by China. We also have South Korea, Japan and Russia to keep themat bay. There is no such security from the Middle East.

What are you talking about? What "lies"? AFAIHS, Moore's F911 was dead-on and fact checked, even if those facts were twisted and contorted to make a point. You, no doubt, did not see the movie, which makes your criticism of it totally moot.

So, basically, you agree that if I think you are a danger to me and/or society, I should have the right to immediately kill and eliminate you? Because that is the argument that is being made by McCain Monday evening.

And, please, it is a giant stretch to compare a superpower state that had invaded dozens of foreign lands and displayed awe in military superiority to a caged tinpot dictator that threatened only his own nation's inhabitants. And, it might be added, a country that for a majority of folks, enjoyed a middle class lifestyle and standard of living not experienced by those in the rest of the region.

What about Korea? What about China? A repressive dictatorial state where freedom of speech and dissent is non-existent. Oh, I forgot, this is the true model of the neocon desired government. It must be, as I don't hear any rhetoric about the evil totalitarian Chinese regime. Slave labor rules!

>>Moore's lies were lauded as "factual"

"Moore's F911 was dead-on and fact checked, even if those facts were twisted and contorted to make a point."

First, it was not "fact checked." So many flaws and flawed logic to make it pathetic to all,but those who hate Bush.
Second, you have no problem with his twisting and contorting to make outright lies and filth? WTF?
I mean, hello??!!! Giuliani gave us "facts" about Kerry last night. Oddly, you call it Kerry Bashing, not dead-on and fact checked. Pray tell, what's the difference? Oh yes, he's a liberal, Moore attacked a neocon. Gotcha.

Moore would make a great Nazi propagandist, Naum. I personally don't have to see it, just as I wouldn't watch any other hate-filled, contemptable filth.

Hitler was far from being a superpower in 1935-36, Naum. He hadn't occupied but a couple countries (Austria for one). All historians agree that had Europe acted in concert to stop Hitler then, he would have been defeated easily, and theoccupying forces would have seen what he was planning. But no....appeasement only made him stronger.
Naturally, you'll conclude that I propose Iraq was capable of becoming a Germany. NO, not what I said.

You speak on things you know not of, and pepper your ignorance with hate speech of your own. Again, I challenge you to tell me "what lies", as I've read cover to cover the material that served as source for F911. And while it's one-sided, it's not based in "lies". You've never seen it and call it "hate-filled". Wow. I guess you rely on the tainted view of others who've not seen it either.

>>Moore would make a great Nazi propagandist, Naum. I personally don't have to see it, just as I wouldn't watch any other hate-filled, contemptable filth.

My point about the Kerry bashing was not whether it was based on factual data, but just that the Republicans have nothing to offer, from what I've witnessed, except fear and bashing the other guy. The Democrat convention (speaking of the convention, not the blogger realms or political operatives) showcased a message of hope and optimism.

Here are a few. Dave Kopel's article contains all these references: it also summarizes and hyperlinks Moores replies to his criticism.

I can also provide a few more, but Kopel's article dissects it completely and provides a compelling argument for his LIES and DECEITS.
You quoted a single NY Times article to describe the factuality. Where did you get your info, Naum?

Why do I call it hate-filled? Because I know who made the film, Naum. Do I need to read Mein kampf to know Hitler was a psycho? Hardly. You saw it...tell me, does Moore HATE Bush, or what? Tell me, does Moore REALLY feel for the vicims of 9/11, as we;; as victims from Islamic countries who've felt the wrath of "American Imperialism?"
No. Last night, after McCain's speech, he was quoted as saying, "I don't know why he menioned my film, because now it'll make even more money (not exact)." Rather than defend his film as truth, he licked his chops at the potential of making more capitalist, American dough.

Please, spare me, this nonsense of Moore's film. By the way, I like your poetic linguistic talent: "Peppered ignorance with hate speech."

On your last point, you obviously didn't listen to the speeches. To hear only fear and bashing quite "partisan" of you. I heard much more. Pride, Sadness, Outrage at injustices, Sympathy for those lost, and Strength of Conviction.

"Hope and Optimism" from the Democrats is translated to denial, and avoidance.

Remember this:
"Realists are Pessimists to the Idealists"

http://www.modamag.com/fahr...

http://www.jpost.com/servle...

http://www.davekopel.com/Te...

http://www.weeklystandard.c...

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/533...

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id...

http://slate.msn.com/id/210...

I've read the counters and besides some nitpicking (i.e., calculation of days off), the charges are off the mark or debate with semantics - the Florida Election 2000 is the beginning whereby Kopel misses the point - that if every ballot was counted in Florida, Gore wins, even if he himself didn't request it.

I could continue blow by blow and shred Kopel, but you wouldn't believe it anyway - focusing on whether or not race was a factor in adding a name to the felon list doesn't change the fact that the list was overwhelmingly comprised of minority voters and that minority voters were turned away because of this. If not, why did NAACP receive large settlement for vote suppression (which included other acts too) from state of Florida. Kopel doesn't mention the St. Pete newstory confirming Saudi flights out. Also, the story wasn't so much the flights out, than the close relationships with Saudi royalty that garner such privileged treatment. Kopel relies on Isikoff for much of his refutal, a biased source that's been proven to be false.

Bottom line is Kopel is not independent source and is biased himself and bankrolled by Republican sugar daddys.

http://www.dailykos.com/sto...

Again, if you saw the frigging movie, you'd understand what I am talking about, agree or disagree with Moore. And I've read cover to cover the sources (Unger's book, the French authors, etc.) and the movie is on the mark in presenting the central theme - that the privileged start wars and profit immensely, yet those who have the least and profit the least give their lives. Meanwhile, billions in profits flow to war profiteers in a invasion of a sovereign nation that threatened the U.S. NOT.

Yes I did hear both speeches and I heard (a) a ridiculous justification (that continues to morph at every juncture) for Iraq invasion, (b) fear propagated (i.e., 911 focus) and (c) Kerry bashing. I didn't hear anything about the coming economic crisis and how we're going to put America back to work given all the advances in automation, computing technology, robotics, offshoring, outsourcing, illegal immigration, importing of non-immigrant visa workers to replace Americans, etc..... Without a strong economic heart, it ain't going to matter, many are going to be relegated to serfs with a small class of shiny people on top. FEUDALISM.

So the wicked wheel turns, Naum. There IS no such thing as an independent writer when it comes to politics, not even you. You just countered with Daily Kos, admittedly, wih your words, a lemonade drinker. Uhhh...independent?

"could continue blow by blow and shred Kopel, but you wouldn't believe it anyway".

Touche' Pussycat. This describes you to a tee! Me as well, I admit it, but you won't! Don't give me this Independen crap. naum, I like you, you sound like a real good man, but come on!
I doubt you'd be able to debunk amything without a counter debunk. That's the way it works. This is called partisan politics.

Twisted and contorted at some point becomes a lie.
I still remember your excorciation of Rush for taking FACTS regarding Peaceful Tomorrows and twisting them into a funded group by Kerry. You were incensed, but thew facts were there.

Anyway, have a good day, naum.

Heh, it just touches a button when somebody criticizes something that they haven't seen firsthand and repeat drivel spoken or written somewhere else without verifying it. Yes, we're all biased in some manner, but I think people confuse OBJECTIVITY with NEUTRALITY. I can be biased and objective. I can be neutral and totally slanted. I'm not sure if most of the journalists get it today as they often try to add "balance" to an issue that really elevates the absurd (I'm sure you can fill in many examples of such instances...).

You mean the treatment the SwiftBoat Vets have gotten. I know your gripe is with their alleged relation to the Bush campaign. But others (Newcomb) have slandered their names, their service and their intelligence without reading the book. OK, I'm guilty on this front.
I'll watch he frigging movie, Naum! At the dollars of course. :)

I've read their claims & visited their website. Even if you dismiss the fact they've made a fortune selling thier made up story and have been spearheaded by super PR partisan politicos – their spoken and written word contradict their own previous spoken and written words and smear other award winners, even as they lambast Kerry for his post-war diatribes that they believe painted them wrong.

Neocon,
As always Excellent! When are you running for office?

Here is another article shredding Moore; This is one from Christopher Hitchens (LIB)

http://slate.msn.com/id/210...

By the way Moore is not going back to the convention (BOO HOO), I guess he can dish it out but he can't take it!

My governor made an awesome speech tonight!

Naum.....now now now....until you read the book...you know
"Heh, it just touches a button when somebody criticizes something that they haven't READ firsthand and repeat drivel spoken or written somewhere else without verifying it."

Arnold sounded great, Kerrysucks. Naum would be satisfied to know he was upbeat, positive and offered hope for this great country. But I agree with Laura that the daughters were uhhhhh....not spectacular.

Take care, hope your new school year is going well.

Neocon,

Thanks! Zell Miller did an outstanding job, as did Cheney!

The Bush twins were not that great, but they are young girls, that is what they acted like. I really don't think they should've been up there. But as far as the speeches go, I think we are doing well! Fantastic!

Zell got shredded by Matthews on the post cable news stump tour. Miller was ready to roll out the Kerry weapons vote record that he flustered the inept CNN crew with, but Matthews asked him some point blank questions that he refused to answer, stammered and then became belligerent. I'll post a link to the transcript when it's available, but Miller had no reply for these questions:

Do you really think John Kerry wants to defend America with spitballs?

How many of those weapons systems were used in Afghanistan and Iraq?

Naum, Chris Matthews can't shred anyone with a half brain. He can outyell and outspit everyone, however.

His true colors have shown in the last two months.
I'd love to see the transcript and better yet, hear the interview. But then again, all you'll hear is Matthews interupting, and choking words like butbutbutbutbutbutbut and uhuhuhuhuhuhuh..

Here is the transcript here. As usual, conservatives think Miller got the better, while liberals may feel differently. It's fascinating, really (and I'm not being a smartass). This phenomena of interpreting language based on ones political bias, to me is just...fascinating. Anyhow...

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id...

"Do you really think John Kerry wants to defend America with spitballs?"
He was asked twice and he answered twice:

The first time he was asked the first question:
MILLER: Well, I certainly don‘t believe they want to defend America by putting the kind of armor and the kind of equipment that we have got to have out there for our troops. I mean, nothing could be clearer than that, than what John Kerry did when he voted against that $87 billion in appropriations, that would have provided protective armor for our troops and armored vehicles.

The second time he was asked:
MILLER: That was a metaphor, wasn‘t it? Do you know what a metaphor is?

MATTHEWS: Well, what do you mean by a metaphor?

MILLER: Wait a minute. He certainly does not want to defend the country with the B-1 bomber or the B-2 bomber or the Harrier jet or the Apache helicopter or all those other things that I mentioned. And there were even more of them in here.
You‘ve got to quit taking these Democratic talking points and using what they are saying to you.

"How many of those weapons systems were used in Afghanistan and Iraq?"

First, he mentioned which ones were used in his speech. But here is how he answered again:

MILLER: Look, this is front and—wait, this is front and back, and it‘s two pages. I have got more documentation here than they have got in the New York Public Library and the Library of Congress.

MATTHEWS: OK.

MILLER: I knew you was going to be coming with all of that stuff.

And I knew that these people from the Kerry campaign would be coming with all this kind of stuff.

That‘s just baloney. Look at the record. A man‘s record is what he is.


Now, it seems to me, after reading this transcript, that Zell Miller-having watched, or heard about Mathews deplorable interviews with O'Niell and Malkin- stayed on the offensive and actually did to Matthews what Matthews typically does to guests. Miller certainlydidn't answer all the questions, but the transcript does show he answered the ones you speak of Naum, and was interrupted by Matthews and especially crowds, so the talk was always helter-skelter (without the blisters on fingers).
Maybe he'll go back on Matthews show tonight.

Again, he rolled into the interview with his printout of Kerry voting record on military systems and thought he'd steamroll 'em with his scripted talking points, and Matthews didn't let him do so, instead asking pertinent questions that he dodged and danced around. Miller finally did state "unfit for presidency", but Matthews, as someone who's developed talking points for politicos, called him out and wanted him to say his words.

Miller becoming belligerent and challenging him to a duel, whether joking or not, was his way of sidestepping the divisive and hateful tone he used in the speech.

Again, he answered the questions you posted.

Scripted, or not, the "pertinent questions" asked by Matthews, including "which weapons were used in Iraq and Afghanistan" were not pertinent, but redundant (Miller had stated which wepaons were used in the speech). So let him read the script and answer the questionagain.
The other pertinent question you mentioned?
"Do you think Kerry would really defend with spitballs?"
Exactly how pertinent is that question? In the arena of politics, metaphors are bantered about like "spitballs". So when a reporter has to ask whether that's what he meant, it simply reveals the intellectual limits of the reporter.

Again, scripted printouts or not, he was prepared for Matthews lewd interview. Miller didn't let MATTHEWS go.
Miller becoming belligerent with Matthews was a breath of fresh air, compared to the typical bullshit on Matthews. Amen and do it again. As the script shows, he spent the next ten minutes trying to defend his interview to his pundits. Yadda yadda......

No, he didn't. Matthews asked for HIS words, not the SPEECHWRITERS and he became befuddled. And it was a most appropriate question to ask isn't this the same crap that Republicans cry fouls when Democrats accuse of them of being heartless about the elderly and children. His response was "I wish to end this interview".

You're looking at it from partisan perspective. You will scoff at me, but I am not, I've waited all convention for something of substance about the economy and all I've heard is KerryBashing and Fear911. I am not enamored with Kerry and still not certain that I am voting for him. But judging from what I've seen thus far, I cannot vote for Bush. And I have voted Republican - I used to vote for Stump in my district when he held/ran for the seat.

It was a vicious personal attack, one unprecedented in modern times, and questions should be asked of why the bitterness and the hate, let alone the inaccuracies in the speech (Kerry has voted for many of those weapons programs too).

>>Again, he answered the questions you posted.

Naum, you're nitpicking about this affair. Aye Karumba. Your inventory of vicious attacks is oddly one-sided.

You honestly think this "vicious personal attack" is unprecedented in modern times? Obviously, your record of "modern attacks" is rather limited.

One should be asked why the HATE, VITRIOLE and ANGER that spews from Gore and his preacher speeches, from Teddy and his soap-box appearances, but I don't hear you asking; only other conservatives, which is translated by liberals as whining and pining.

Don't pretend all this negativity is only from Miller and the GOP. Who's looking through partisan goggles? Hell, this is politics.

In all the history of this country, there's never been a pretty, friendly and amiable campaign. I'm getting sick of this "I've never seen such negative campaigning" crap.
The only reason we've never SEEN, or HEARD is because TV is so new (50 years). And no one bothers to do a thorough analysis of old newspapers (good thesis, by the way).

As far as modern times, plllllleeeeeeease!!! Same shit different campaign.
If Miller exaggerated his claims, then go Kerry! Prove him wrong and attack. I'm sure they're on that now.

Neocon, even folks in your own party's fold were shocked at the hate and vitriol, especially when contrasted with the Democrat keynote speaker, Obama, whose smiling face beamed a message of hope and can-do optimism. In direct contrast to the foaming at the mouth, ranting and raving of Miller - it seemed like a KKK rally (and Miller has flip-flopped on that issue in the past...).

The "last of the Dixiecrats" parting shots and folks are comparing it to Buchanan's 1992 convention appearance.

Sorry, but Gore's speech, while critical of GOP performance did not sink to that level of personal attack.

Are you really going to tell me that John Kerry wants to defend the country with spitballs too? And already, all of the content of Miller's speech has been debunked, as his talking points were lifted out of context. I won't repeat the links, even your guys are all over him.

HIs speech strengthened the base of Republican power, but I don't think it helped you guys.

Sorry, I was looking to hear more than KerryBashing and Fear911.

Fear 9/11??????????????? I just don't get how libs can say that!? Did they not see those buildings fall? THEY don't think it can happen again? Russia was against the war on terror and look at what is happening there? Little babies being held hostage! We are dealing with inhuman monsters here! The world changed on 9/11 and the Dems need to pull their heads out of their asses! Terrorist want all of us dead! They are not going to stop until we do something about it! The 8 years the Clinton admin did nothing should prove that to them! Kerry isn't going to do a damn thing and his voting record proves it! Liberals love to split hairs over "spit balls": but use your head, they know what he meant for God's sake. It's all semantics with these people!

I heard this morning on Good Morining America that they did some internal polls and Miller's speech has hurt Kerry. You can tell it did because the Dems have come out this morning and have already started their typical character assignations on Miller.

These ARE SCARY TIMES whether you choose to stick your head in the sand or not! I can't believe anyone with a sound mind could vote for Kerry because he has NO PLAN. And even if he did how do we know he would stick to it. He is constantly changing his mind! We need a leader!
Someone who is going to do what they think is right, Someone who is going to defend this country.

And as far as bitching about Kery bashing GET OVER IT! There has been nothing but Bush Bashing for the last 3 and 1/2 years! The double standard is unbelieveable! I suppose they think it's fair to call Bush Hitler and a facist, but how dare someone rasie a question over Kerry's voting recorded, or question HIS endless lies. It's funny how much they loved Miller in 1992, but if you disagree with the DEMS its' over for you. REAL TOLERANT!

Oh, how partisan of you, Naum. It's uncharacteristic (wink wink).
When Gore screams,"HE BETRAYED THIS COUNTRY, HE PREYED ON OUR FEARS". It's love, hope and optimism, right?

Are YOU going to tell me you're still stuck on "spitballs"? WTF? Boy, I'll bet that little phrase took alot of research to debunk. I'm expecting a press conference anytime from Kerry explaining that he WON'T defend with spitballs.

You had no problem with those hopeful, optimistic metaphors uttered by the Dems (no need to repeat; you OUGHT to know); you had no problem with accusations beyond the "plane of reality" during the Dem Primaries. And, of course, you have no problem with Moores distorted, twisted LIES and even worse, you had no problem with his presence and the hate he sweated at the Dem Convention.

You may not have liked it and that's your right. YOu may think he was too negative, and the convention overall. But try using a little more INDEPENDENT thought when comparing Miller's speech to any wacked out Dem politician with a frigging Microphone; don't make your partisan nature so blatant.

BTW, did any of you hear Matthews last night with Laura et al.? I didn't, but the sound bites she replayed are quite lively.

Attack the policy philosophy and record for its merits and demerits is all good and fine, but launching into a vicious personal attack is another matter. And that's the difference as I see it in Miller's speech. I don't know what Kerry did to cheese him off and make him say contradictory things (from his own speeches of a few years ago, even post 9/11), but it was gutterball. It played to partisans and perhaps Republican politicos are hoping that undecideds who were opting for the ABB route stay home instead after swallowing that sort of vitriol.

Neocon, even many in your own ranks are distancing themselves from Miller's remarks. It wasn't so much the speech, but the bitter, hate filled tone.

And I will say the same things to those deluded souls that believe GWB is prince of darkness.

Again, I'm going to defend Moore. He's a partisan no doubt that has villified the Bush gang's polices. You base your contempt for him based on what others say his message is. His movies ask more questions than state what his truth is. I've read the critics of his and most of their lobs are baseless, centered in ignorance of not ever even seeing the films. But I've been critical of Moore in his authored books that are worse than Limbaughs, repeating innudendo and crap that in some cases are totally unfounded. But his films are not the same as his books or his progressive stumping.

For instance, a guy @ work lashed into Moore being a gun control nut and how Bowling for Columnbine sucked. I asked him if he saw the movie, because the movie was NOT a plea for gun control. It was not one of his better films, but it mainly asked the big question of why our society is such a violent one.

Yes! Gore went on screeching and foaming at the month at the MoveOn event, but God forbid anyone should even whisper a crtiism of Kerry. Miller is a democrat for God's sakes!

It boils down to what Ron Silver, (also a lib) said, "You are either a 9/10 or a 9/11 person. I am a 9/11 person!" When even Libs are coming out and supporting Bush then you might want to think about it. We don't live in the same world anymore!

All this time Kerry has been bitching and moaning about how they are attacking me about my service, and them at midnight he give a speech critizing Cheney for his service and AGAIn talks about what a great Vietnaum soldier he was! WHAT THE HELL?!!!!!

Neocon,
Did you hear Paul Gallanti on Rush? He is one of the Swiftvets. He said that Kerry's voice is the voice they heard in the Hanoi Hotel. He said that Kerry is a traitor! Kerry met with the enemy during the war in Paris. It was because of Kerry that the war went on longer because the North held on longer hoping the anti war crowd would make The US pull out! My husband reads all those Vietnam books and says that is true!

P.S. Bush's speech was great! :)

You need to read "Michael Moore is a Big Fat Stupid White Man" It will give you a more balanced look at Michael Moore. He is not the God you think he is. He is a fat looser that critizes capitalism and then makes millions of his twisted movies.

What conservativs other tham McCain backed away from Zell MiIler? Don't you believe in free speech? Or is free speech only alowed if you are screeching like all Gore about president Bush?

Naum, I base Moore on his comments he's made across the globe regarding America. I base my opinion on what I've heard from him in the news, etc. On top of that, he's distorted and twisted facts (your words) to create an entirely different conclusion.

Let's do another comparison: the distortions and twisted facts from his film aren't much different than the distortions and twisted logic of Miller's speech. Not once did he call Kerry a traitor, he didn't question his patriotism, but his judgement. He listed a number of weapons systems Kerry voted down.
I'm aware you're prepared for debunking; fine. BUT, the facts, nevertheless are apparent in his speech. He laid it out and peppered the facts with rhetoric (all speeches do). In other words, he twisted and distorted facts.
Now, is that a lie? Is that horrid, or immoral? You might say, well Moore didn't speak at the DNC. Doesn't matter; in fact Moore has been able to reach an even larger audience with the silent blessing of the left-wing of the DNC.
Aaaargghhhh! I have to get back to work.

I don't know why I'm still on Moore; you probably think I'm fanatic about him. I'm not. I'm simply trying to point out in this entire discussion, that neither side is particularly cuddly, or hopeful, or positive. Moore has been a loudspeaker for the left. They love the guy.

I did watch some of his film on...it might have been Roger and Me. It was entertaining, though I didn't watch enough to get the point.
Simpsons always come first D'OH!

BTW, have you noticed the vitriolefrom thelibs regarding the Bush daughters? I find it ironic. I distinctly remember Straus discussing Rush's commentson Chelsea. Now Benson draws snidecartoons, bloggers describe them as trash; and Newcombs callers spew their hate notonly for Bush, but for the loser girls and failure of a mother Laura. Ouch!

Naum, it's ugly on both sides. Not nearly as ugly as it was a century ago, but nevertheless....at least on this site, we can still discuss, argue and at the end of the day crack open a beer and say,"Free speech is Great."
Kerrysucks, I missed the interview. Take care and have a great holiday weekend.

Well, I'll probably draw ire again but when the Bush twins decided to actively join the campaign, they became "open game" at least in terms of their political participation. Prior to that and for Chelsea, who stayed out of the fray, I don't think it was fair. And seriously, how do "bloggers" really know if they truly are "trash"? You are correct about the vitriol though, it's over the top.

But here I am going to rile you up :) again. The conservatives helped lower the bar w/Clinton. Yeah, Clinton was pretty slimy in his personal pursuit of female conquest, but the Republicans opened a door that had been respected prior to that term. GWH Bush was fingered by Linda Tripp and others who occupied quarters close to the White House as having numerous affairs. Truman had a push button to alert him when his wife came into vicinity of the oval office, so he could straighten up and escape detection of infidelities. FDR had his pecadillos. Eisenhower had a pretty young lady driver that shared more than the automobile space with him. JFK had a team of "scouts" recruit young prospects for him and it was no secret to fellow politicians and the press who covered the Washington beat. And on and on it can go to virtually most all of the presidents in office (and most CEOs, CFOs and CIOs that I've dealt with also were less than scrupulous in their personal affairs...).

But, some conservatives spearheaded a movement, that a preponderance of their party piled on, to go after Clinton by any means necessary, knowing that while they may not bring him down, they'd cause public humiliation and tarnish his image w/the public, which did have an effect, even if Mr. Clinton had the last laugh.

Why was it an unspoken arrangement for 210+ years that a president's extracurricular immoral affairs were not fodder for political attacks, but then the rules changed for Clinton?

Oh, I forgot, it's Al Gore's fault for helping create this internet deal…

Well, George W Bush himself for one - they removed Miller off the list for family box seating after his tirade.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id...

Laura Bush quoted as saying he doesn't speak for us...

>>What conservativs other tham McCain backed away from Zell MiIler? Don't you believe in free speech? Or is free speech only alowed if you are screeching like all Gore about president Bush?

And "KerrySucks" (I hope that's not your real name!), it's not a "free speech" issue. Zell is free to spew whatever vitriol he wishes, whether it be Kerry's Unfitness for the presidency, his return to his segregationist roots, the ebb and flow of literacy among Michael Savage fans... ...I just can't believe that he would make it such a personal issue and really call out the man's character instead of addressing the difference in policy. And then becoming belligirent over a question he didn't like.

Actually, I kind of respect him for speaking out his own sentiments instead of blindly marching with his party (sort of like an obedient McCain is now doing), he really looked bitter and hateful, and I'm not sure that was the effective keynote speech. Then again, maybe it was as most folks don't watch or listen to these things, instead are glued to whatever reality show du jour is the latest rage...

Well, I'll give you that, Naum (Clinton's Dealio). He stepped in it, but the trap was set. I do believe in retrospect, that they went a little over the top.
Ironically, I actually owe him a debt of gratitude. It was afer 1995 tha I really started down...oopsy..up the path to conservative thinking. I hink I always was at core, but that was the year, I jumped off he fence.
But I'll give you that much.
McCain is an enigma. I really believe that without 9/11 McCain would not be up there. It happened and now he's stumping for active, offensive engagement.
It makes me wonder if the GOP will recognize that in 2008, the big issue will still likely be War on Terror. If they do, will they choose a big stumper like him despite his more lenient tendencies on other issues?
Just a thought. They may need someone like him to offset you-know-who.

Its sounds to me like the author was speculating as to why he wasn't aloud in the box with the first family. HE DID have many interviews on Thursday. All Laura Bush said is we all have different view points about the President. She then mentioned Rudy and Arnold's speech as having different view points as well. I just think it is interesting that the Dems, according to your article, respected Miller when he was there to speak about Clinton (which was just as animated by the way) but once again if you insult a democrat it is "mean spirited". AND I LOVE how the MSNBC writer is so concerned about how this might backfire on Bush. Well it didn't!

As for getting personal, MY GOD! Do you hear what they say about Bush? Al Gore screeched about how Bush betrayed his country, Teddy Kennedy said he concocted a war for political gain, and Howard Dean advancing the therory that George Bush new about 9/11 before it happened. Once again Zell Miller spoke about Kerry's record, that is not a personal attack! He didn't call Kerry stupid, facist, a liar or unfit to hold office like Kerry and his cronies have said.

Some people thought Kerry was drunk when he spoke at midnight last night. So is it true? I could write an article speculating that he was drunk.

As for Clinton, It was never about him having an affair, it was about him LYING to the American people and committing perjury. The average person couldn't do that and either should the president.

To ask a Chris Matthews type question; Do you really think my name is Kerysucks?

>>To ask a Chris Matthews type question; Do you really think my name is Kerysucks?

Um, I don't know for sure, but that's what you've entered as your name.

But it makes it easy to guess where you're coming from…

It was a joke, Naum! Relax! :)
Of course you know where I'm coming from! I make no qualms about it!

Dear Kerry Sucks: You need to get a life. You are a sad and patetic individual.

That's all you can say CALatina? Obviously you can't read...Cork your cryhole why don't you?

Just wanted to state that John Kerry gave me HOPE in today’s debate and that under his leadership the United States will once again prosper. I can totally see John Kerry as our next strong President of the United States.

CALatina,

Your statement proves how dellusional you really are. Kerry doesn't have any sort of plan for Iraq. He contradicted himself all over the place. But being the obviously "brillant" person that you are maybe you can figure out how to pull your head out of your ass once and for all.

Neocon,

What's UP? How have you been? Did you watch the debate?

Hello, Kerrysucks, how's the school year so far? Yes, I watched the debate last night, at least as much as I could.

I just wish Bush could have challenged his words more. Kerry complimented Reagan in his handling of foreign affairs, but as we all know, Kerry opposed everything Reagan did. Hello! At one point, Kerry suggested more troops should be in Iraq, and then mentioned if his "plan" works, troops could begin limited withdrawal after six months. Hello! Kerry once wantedmore money spent on the war;"as many billions as it takes to WIN". Not anymore, the 200 billion was too much.
Oh yes, let's not forget "global test". What pissed me off about both was their sissy answers on Sudan. Neither one of them condemned the spineless behavior of the UN. They don't want to act, so they won't admit Genocide. How can we work with, much less pass a "global test" with an organization with no guts, morals, or intentions in doing what their charter demands?

Bush unfortunately also let Kerry get away with accusing him of not using enough diplomacy, or having acoalition before going to war. Horseshit. Everywhere Powell went around the globe months and months before war, Villepin would follow and change minds after Powell left. France, Germany and Russia held it up. Can anyone say "Oil for Food?" The current coalition is global in scale.

By the way, CALatina thinks you're a sad pathetic individual because of your nickname. Obviously she doesn't realize you're a proud, strong-willed woman and a public school teacher trying to make a difference for today's youth. Hardly pathetic and hardly one who needs a life.

Take care and talk to you soon.

Hey Neocon,
It is going fantastic! The kids are great! More of my teacher friends are voting for Bush! I have even convinced a few! They HATE Kerry! Everyone thinks Kerry is very arrogant!
I thought Bush did ok, but he was deffinetly off his game. Kerry was good on style only, but the substance of what he was saying was just CRAZY!
You are exactly right about his "Global Test" What the hell was that? So we are going to check in with the "world" before we do anything???? A lot of good the "Global Test" did with Sudan! Maybe from now on we can just sanction people to death! A lot of good that does!
You are right about how we tried diplomacy! We have like 30 countries who helped or have helped out in Iraq. Just because France, Germany didn't help out (GEE I WONDER WhY??????)
My favorite part is when Kerry looked at the camera and said, "I have been consistent?" WHAT? Is he out of his mind? He says the war in Iraq is wrong and then in the same breath says how he is going to win it. What is that? He saw the same intel Bush did, came to the same conclusion, and then sends ours guys in there and votes against giving them what they need.
So what if Kerry can stand up there and read scripted answers. What the hell is his plan! I still don't know! I still don't know if he is for the war or against it! And if he is for the war what is he going to do?

By the way, CALatina would be happy to know that we gave the FIRST GRADERS a chance to vote in the SCHOLASTIC News paper we get, and 15 out of 20 voted for Bush! They have more sense then she does!

I just want to state that I am shocked that there are so many people like Kerry Sucks and Necon whom still support Bush. Is ½ of America that stupid? I mean if I had to hire President Bush or John Kerry to run my company, hands down I would choose John Kerry. How many mishaps must we suffer thru so that people get it? Time and time again it is proven that all profitable companies and goverment bodies succeed because the leadership at the very top sets the tone, structure and motivation to those down below and clearly the BUSH administration and most importantly Bush himself has proven to be a perfect example of complete nothing but chaos.

I am hardly anti-war but I must say that I am anti-dumb war.

I don't think you really understand the issues at all. First of all since 9/11 the world changed and you have to get that through your thick skull. We had the Clinton administration for eight years and were attacked over eight times and Clinton DID NOTHING! So Bush finally did something! We can't just sit there and do NOTHING and excpect the terrorist to just go away! That is the pre 9/11 mentality. Did you see those buildings fall? Look at the children in Russia, you don't think that can happen here?! These cowardly bastards killed children! When you deal with terroists you have to play offense! You can't ignore them, they don't go away! Kerry doesn't have a plan! HELLO! WHY WOULD YOU VOTE FOR SOMEONE THAT DOESN'T HAVE A PLAN? Actually it is more then half of America that supports Bush. Haven't you seen the polls lately?
What is dumb about the war? IS it the fact that we are fighting over there on their turf away from us? We are killing terrorist every single day! We killed 109 insurgents just the other day!
Kerry wants the friggin UN to run our country. We need a leader who can make a decesion! Kerry can't make up his mind to save his life! What would happen to a company if the CEO couoldn't make up their mind? Bush has set the tone. Every single person knows where he stands, maybe you don't agree with it but, at least you know where he stands! Kerry has no plan and changes his positions on everything.
Did it ever cross you mind that maybe with think your stupid for voting for Kerry?

1. Al-Qaeda was not in Iraq, even the adminisrations own map of the world did not include Iraq as a spot for Al-Qaeda. Al-Qaeda is who attacked the U.S. on 9/11.

2. Russia events not applicable, different situation, given the Russians have raped, pillaged, and plundered Chechnya, including discriminate aind indiscriminate killing of women and children. This is well documented and if you wish to read up on some recent history.

3. The pre-emptive, unlawful invasion of a sovereign nation that threatened the U.S. not created a hotbed for terrorism and a fertile breeding ground for future terrorism. More terrorists are being created than insurgents killed. A majority of Iraqis (close to 80% and in the same poll cited by Bush for other points...) desire an Islamic state, which amounts to victory for bin Laden and his barbaric crew.

4. If you truly believe that "Kerry wants the UN to run our country" you are a moron of immense proportion. I may not totally agree with Kerry, but one thing he is correct is that "staying the course" will require (a) more troops ala a draft or (b) getting more allied support and repairing the harm done by the Bush administration.

5. It's a sign of a great leader to change course once the evidence has shown the error of your ways. "Staying the course" as the situation devolves into utter chaos, does not a great leader make. Allawi is nothing but a administration puppet and the fact that Bush campaign aides wrote Allawi's speech is the latest illustration. Yeah, you'll retort that restoring democracy in Iraq blah blah, but READ the accounts and emails of those there who describe in great detail the deterioration ongoing.

One more point... ...I don't wish to rehash Vietnam and the candidates but all the Rathergate (though, the folks closest to Mr. Killian went on record to state that the substance of the unauthenticated memos were true) and Rove-esque media manipulation has obscured the following fact:

One man answered the call, did two tours of duty in Vietnam, faced enemy fire and earned medals for his courage for a war that he later spoke out publicly against.

The other man took the more cowardly road, avoided combat, and even chucked out on his duty to his cushy TANG spot during a WAR HE SPOKE OUT IN SUPPORT OF.

But again, the hypocrisy on the right is truly astounding. We were told again and again how much character meant while Clinton was president. But here is a vivid contrast in how these two men spent their young adult years.

I know, you guys are going to pick up the talking points again, from Team GOP, Rush, Hannity, Savage, Liddy, etc... and come back with the shill bullet points...

The utter caos is leftist spun crap! I have talked to so many soldiers who have come back from Iraq, who have had their boots on the ground who are completely frustrated that our American media is only reporting the negative. They have given these people freedom! Do you think you are the only one who deserves it?
We removed a madman! I thought you libs were suppose to want to help people. Saddam tortured and killed, and if you honsestly think that Saddam was in no way involved with terroirst than you are the moron. Why do you think Zarquwi is over there? He is a high up al-Queda operative. He was in Iraq before the war started. Why do you think the insurgents are fighting so hard over there?

We did go after OBL! Why do you think we went over to Afghanastan to begin with? Why are we bombing the Pakistan border? Let's face it OBL wouldn't be a problem if Clinton had gotten him from the Sudanese after they offered him to us THREE times!

If you truly believe that "Kerry wants the UN to run our country" you are a moron of immense proportion. I may not totally agree with Kerry, but one thing he is correct is that "staying the course" will require (a) more troops ala a draft or (b) getting more allied support and repairing the harm done by the Bush administration.

Well well welll what did Kerry say he was going to do then? France and Germany both said they wouldn't go into Iraq even if Kerry does get elected. And once again what the HELL IS KERRY'S PLAN????? He said both at the debates! He says we need more troops in one breath and then turns around and says he is getting the troops out of there. You can't run a country effectively by changing your positions every three seconds, that is not a leader!

WE have killed 75% of al Queda did you ever read section 15 of the 9/11 commission? We have made huge progress in killing terrorists! And we are killing them over there not fighting them here! Haven't you figured it out yet? If we have a democracy in the middle east we are not only freeing those people but helping oursleves! We have allies now. And as for unlawful war the UN does rule us! Both houses suppoeted the war! Amrican law suppoted the war! That's our law WE WERE THE ONES ATTACKED ON 9/11! Do you notice Russia has already changed its tune? Because it happened to them . They realized you have to fight back! Those terrorists in Russia were islamic terrorists, 10 were from al-Queda! Why would you want to make an excuse for ANY terrorist, so it is justified to kill kids? ARE YOU MAD???!!

Who are you to say that Allawi is a puppet? Have you been to Iraq lately? Do you know first hand what is going on there? Aren't you getting you talking points from Carvel, Moore, Pellosi, Kennedy, Dean etc.? Because that statement came right out of the Kerry campaign. You have no proof what so ever that the Bush admin wrote that speech. And I have not seen any such emails, I have heard and talked to people who were there, not some drummed up 60 Minute "witness" who turns out to be as phony as the documents they tried to pass off!

more point... ...I don't wish to rehash Vietnam and the candidates but all the Rathergate (though, the folks closest to Mr. Killian went on record to state that the substance of the unauthenticated memos were true) and Rove-esque media manipulation has obscured the following fact:

EXCUSE ME! Mr. Kilan's wife,and son said he loved Bush and so did Bush's commander!

Kerry is a treasonous LIAR! He met THREE times in Paris during the Vietnam war! His picture hangs in the museum! He is a hero to the Commies because of his fake Winter Soldier stories! He prolonged the war in Vietnam. That vietnamese counted on that and hung on hoping the anti war movement would make the US pull out. We could have finished them of,f but instead lost a whole lot of men as a result becasue of those ignorant hippies! He testified against his own "Band of Brothers" He even tried to get a defferment not to go to Vietnam. I bet your DU friends didn't tell you that!

Every single vet I have talked to HATES Kerry! The only one who I have even heard of voting for him is Peacemaker. Kerry accused all of them of committing attrocities! People like my father in law were spit on when they came back from serving in Vietnam because of Kerry!

1. You can read accounts of Iraqis and reporters along w/soldiers tales.

2. Are you going to tell me Allawi is an elected leader? That he wasn't an ex-intelligence asset that played nation against nation? You are extremely naive.

3. I've talked to many vets, including my own father, who feel differently than you and are voting for Kerry. Kerry didn't accuse ALL of warcrimes, he merely stated the truth.

4. Killian's wife & son would not have intimate knowledge that his secretary & peers would have had. I love my children and they love me, but they far removed from the intricate details of my day to day job activities, other than general descriptive blurbs.

Some reading material:

A Wall Street Journal e-mail to friends that paints a much bleaker picture than the paper will print:

http://www.commondreams.org...

Other links with inside insight - reporters or Iraqi natives...

http://riverbendblog.blogsp...
http://dailywarnews.blogspo...
http://www.back-to-iraq.com/
http://www.juancole.com/

Background on Allawi

http://www.disinfopedia.org...

I suppose the 9/11 commission are all morons too, because they found no link between Al-Qaeda & Hussien. And there is little evidence to link Zarqawi to Al-Qaeda, prior to the Iraq invasion, according to credible souces in Intelligence & Foreign Affairs. Even the administration has not stood firm in support of such an argument, merely tossing out suggestive remarks to buttress their justification for an invasion.

>>if you honsestly think that Saddam was in no way involved with terroirst than you are the moron. Why do you think Zarquwi is over there? He is a high up al-Queda operative. He was in Iraq before the war started. Why do you think the insurgents are fighting so hard over there?

Wow Naum. Good Job. You really know your stuff. Kudos!!!!

Unfortunately, people like Kerry sucks are willing to let Bush take this country down the toilet because they are in complete denial. I for one, plan on fighting for my country and every thing that I love about it, like FREEDOM OF FREE SPEECH by couraging everyone I know to vote for John Kerry because I believe we need a fresh start. I believe that if Kerry is elected he will have a much better chance on bringing solution to the fiasco in Iraq. I like Kerry’s idea that we need to work in collaboration with countries like Rush in helping secure piles of wmd’s and I believe that if other countries help secure Iraq and are given a chance to bid on contracts that will help rebuild Iraq instead of saving all contracts for Halliburton, The United States will be safer at home and once again respected in the world.

My brother is a solider in the United States Army and the thought of my brother being shipped of to Iraq and dieing because President Bush lied and stated that Sadam had WMD’s enrages me to no avail. This war could potentially affect my family so all this bullshit talk by people like Kerrysucks means nothing to me because at the end of the day it not her family member who’s putting their LIFE on the line for a lie.

Naum,

According to your own article it said Allawi and seven Iraqis have established connections to al-Queda. But oh no, Salon Magaizine knows better, not the people who live in Iraq, but Salon magizine.. So once again let's not believe what people from Iraq have to say, but libs from the US know so much more than the people actually living in Iraq. Allawi wants freedom. You know, the freedom that you have. They are going to have their elections in January. I guess becasue you are an Iraqi you don't deserve freedom. How racist you are!

250 vets who served with Kerry don't want him elected, that should speak for itself. You see them, unlike you, know something about Kerry, he betrayed them, he serves his own best interest. He betrayed this country. He is unfit to lead. And before you go off on how they are all republicans that is an out right lie! A lot are dems too, it isn't about poilitcs to them, its about the betryal. Alot of the POWs were tortured and heard Kerry's voice while at the Hanoi Hilton. So yeah,I would say they are bitter.
The 9/11 commission sited a letter that Zarquawi wrote to UBL. No connection hmmmm???? Yeah and there were no al queda training camps either. Zarquawi is connected to al-Queda and he is in Baghdad. Besides your boy Kerry believed all the connections too remember? He was in favor of the war, but just didn't want to arm our troops. So CAlatina's brothers could go over there and have nothing to fight with.

Kilian's documents were debunked already Bush's commander who knew Kilian. He said there was no special treatment That is your opinion about Kilian not telling his wife or children, you don't know that. cBS and the Kerry campaign (really one of the same) were desperate to create anything to counter the swiftvet ads. Lockheart was in touch with the producer Mary Mapes! Besides forging federal documents to influence an election!

CAlatina,

As a matter of fact I do have friends who are over in Iraq. I hear a much different story than the ones the Us libs try to paint of the "chaos".

You said, " I like Kerry’s idea that we need to work in collaboration with countries like Rush in helping secure piles of wmd’s." and then you said, "President Bush lied and stated that Sadam had WMD’s enrages me to no avail."

HMMMM how can we work to secure stockpiles of wmds when there are none? You've been listening to Kerry to much.

How does your brother feel about going to Iraq?

You said you like the Freedom of Speech, but if we don't do something about terrorits we won't have any freedoms.
"

My brother is very conflicted and is not sure who he should vote for because even if he does not verbally admit it to me, deep down in his heart he is aware that what is happing in Iraq is a nothing but a complete disaster. On the other hand, he loves this country as much as I do and the Army teaches all soldiers to respect their president no matter what; therefore, his warrior instincts tell him he should go fight along side his buddies and get the job done. It kills him that his buddies are fighting over in Iraq and he is not there to fight with them.

Let me tell you that I cry at the very thought that my brother might be sent to off to Iraq. If God forbid something was to ever happen to my brother while fighting this war, I would hate and never forgive President Bush, for I personally feel he betrayed me and my family by sending our troops in harms way in the name oil and Halliburton profit.

In regards to your analogy that Russia and Sadam’s WMD’s are all one in the same, let me tell you that you are ill informed. We all know for a fact the Russia has WMD’s that are not being properly guarded. Sadam on the other hand did not have WMD’s because the sanctions put in place before GW ever got to the white house were working. As I stated before I am hardly anti-war but I am anti-dumb war. The money being spent in Iraq is costing us immensely. We could have used those funds to help secure our borders and prevent terrorists from coming into the United States.

http://jb-williams.com/sold...

I think this says it all! Your brother wants to fight because of freedom. Freedom costs! Weapons cost money. We were attacked on 9/11! We can't sit here and do nothing.

The arguments about blood for oil are all old and even the democrat die hards have given those up by now. Think about it, we are over and can take there oil any time we want. Why haven't we? What about the UN's "Oil for Food" program?

The sanctions didn't do a damn thing, that is why all the countries voted for resouluton 1441.

So why don't we just sanction Russia then!? That should solve everything according to libs. Why would you want to go after Russia and not terrorists? The terrorist are the ones who knocked down our buildings not Russia!

You need to read the Butler report, where it was proved that Saddam was going to purchase yellowcake uranium. We need to get all the wmds out of all the terrorist hands. So what wll Kerry do about it? Give it a "Global Test", or sanction it to death! Both are ineffective! I think your the one who is ill informed!

We were attacked on 9/11 and the big solution from you is to cry on your pillow every night and elect a leader that has no plan! BRILLANT! And I have been accused of being naive, a moron ,and ill in formed.

http://jb-williams.com/sold...

I think this says it all! Your brother wants to fight because of freedom. Freedom costs! Weapons cost money. We were attacked on 9/11! We can't sit here and do nothing.

The arguments about blood for oil are all old and even the democrat die hards have given those up by now. Think about it, we are over and can take there oil any time we want. Why haven't we? What about the UN's "Oil for Food" program?

The sanctions didn't do a damn thing, that is why all the countries voted for resouluton 1441.

So why don't we just sanction Russia then!? That should solve everything according to libs. Why would you want to go after Russia and not terrorists? The terrorist are the ones who knocked down our buildings not Russia!

You need to read the Butler report, where it was proved that Saddam was going to purchase yellowcake uranium. We need to get all the wmds out of all the terrorist hands. So what wll Kerry do about it? Give it a "Global Test", or sanction it to death! Both are ineffective! I think your the one who is ill informed!

We were attacked on 9/11 and the big solution from you is to cry on your pillow every night and elect a leader that has no plan! BRILLANT! And I have been accused of being naive, a moron ,and ill in formed.

Kerrysuck – I do not appreciate that you belittle and dismiss my comments about how I feel in regards to my brother going to war. Maybe you pound your cheat and feel brave about sending our troops to war because it’s not your brother; son or daughter putting their life on the line for what President Bush said was a grave and gathering danger and then later it turned out there no WMD’s. You see I think you should put your money where your mouth is and sign up for the Army if you believe this Country is going in the right direction.

It pains me to know that my brother is serving in the military under the leadership of President Bush when individual like the swift boat vets whom have ties to the current administration are willing to turn their back on a solider like John Kerry for simply speaking up to state that perhaps he was not in agreement with the ways things were going in Vietnam after he risked his life and served his country honorably. It makes me wonder what kind of message people like you, George Bush and the Swift Boat vets are sending our troops. Will you and George Bush also turn your back on my brother if ever speaks up to state that perhaps he is not agreement with his president?

How can you support a man who was a fucken coke addict/drunk and avoided the draft while men like John Kerry were fighting in Vietnam? I don’t know about you but I sure as hell am not going to jump of the cliff with you or your retarded president.

In regards to the sanctions and in the words of Joseph Wilson in his book the Politics of Truth: While the twelve years of sanctions on his country had not been so airtight that they had prevented Saddam from building palaces, he had not, however much he wished or strived to, been able to rebuild his military. The no-fly zones had effectively denied him sovereignty over much of his country, and his support was eroding from within. A look at photographs of his cabinet meeting showed old men. Saddam’s regime was sclerotic. 130,000 American soldiers were not required to topple it; it needed the resurrection of the inspection regime, supported by the threat of force, and some skillful subversion. Sure twelve years was a long time for us to put up with the irritation of Saddam. But by way of comparison, the Cold War lasted forty five years, and Saddam was far less of threat than several generations of Soviet leaders and the Red Army had been. In fact, the Cold War provided a useful blueprint on how to subvert an oppressive regime and achieve regime change without resorting to brute force.

So you aren't allowed to have an opinion unless you have a brother going to Iraq!? Typical libs BS! I told you I have friends that are over there, not that I have to justify anything to you! I am 36 years old and a woman, and if I could I would go. because unlike you I understand the stakes.

There is no ties with the swift vets and the cuurent administration. PROVE IT! Unlike the Kerry campiagn and cBS. Those 250 Swift vets have reason to discredit Kerry! They were betrayed! Is the only Vietnam Vet we should honor is Kerry because he happens to be a liberal!? Oh, and I suppose the troops feel wonderful when Kerry says he"Supports" the troop,s but then Kerry turns around and says "wrong war wrong place wrong time." Real nice when soldiers are out there in harms way. Everything Kerry and the Libs say against America and the troops is being used by Al jeezera to motivate the terrorists. When Kerry says, We can't win and help is on the way" what the hell do you think that does to morale? Didn't you read the article I linked? That was a soldiers take.
You want a traitor for president? Anyone that goes and meets with the Viet Cong during the war and spreads the commie message is a traitor in my book! You want to read a book read; Unfit for Command.
Joe Wilson is a liar, where the hell have you been? He is the guy that went to Niger and said that Saddam did not look into yellowcake unranium, and the the Butler report comes out and said that Saddam did! You quoted Joseph Wilson LOL! I don't know if you noticed but the UN had like sanction after sanction and deadline after deadline. A lot of good that did!

Oh and Kerry avoided the draft! He applied for Four defferments and joined the Naval Reserves! He asked to be in the Swift Vets because there wasn't a lot of action, and then when they did see action he complained. Then the "brave soldier" comes back and labels his fellow soldiers as war criminals! So people like my father in law were called "baby Killer' and spit in the face when he returned. The POWs were tortured for not admitting what John Kerry freely did. How could YOU support someone like that?

A coke addict? You have no evidence of that. So you ran out of substance huh? LOL!

My advice to you is to quit watching Michael Moore movies and reading Kitty Kelly novels, and wake up to the real world. The year is October 2, 2004 that is post 9/11, that old world doesn't exist any more. We don't have the luxury of electing a man who is as undecisive as Kerry. Who is going to run our country according to what France or Germany wants to do.

Kerrysucks -
When the hell did I suggest you could not have an opinion? Unlike your President, I am not trying to force you to adopt my views. I don’t believe everything should be my way or the highway. I believe that in our democracy, our government should act in accordance with what the majority in this county want and this November, god willing John Kerry will prevail and we will get rid of the man who stole the 2000 election in the first place.

I find it hard to believe you are a teacher. My goodness, you are practically of the Britney Spears mentality. Americans should trust government. Americans should never question the president. If you disagree with the president you are un-American and a traitor. What the hell are you smoking? Give me some of that stuff and maybe I will start to read some of those Kittie’s novels that you’re talking about because the reality of where this country is going under the weak leadership of President Bush is sobering.

When I mentioned my brother, I mistakenly thought you might show some of that CONSERVATIVE COMPASSION your hypocrite president tries to fool the American people with, but you failed the test. There is nothing compassionate about you or your President for that matter. It seems to me, its ok with you that over 10,000 Iraq civilians have died as a result of this war. It’s ok to have over 1,000 of our soldiers die because the President misguided us into war. In a recent pool, forty percent of people in Iraq said they would prefer to have Sadam back. Are the people of Iraq much better off now than when Saddam was in power? I seriously question that thought.

If there were no ties between the swift boat vets and the current administration, why did former Bush-Cheney campaign advisor Ken Cordier resign after appearing in the commercials? Why did the Bush-Cheney attorney, Benjamin Ginsberg resign after it was discovered that he was advising the swift boat vets. The list does not end there. Let me know if you need more examples.

The low moral the troops and my brother perhaps feel can be attributed to Bush because let me tell you, my brother is not exactly excited about Bush. What kind of message does Bush send to our troops when he can’t even defend his position in a debate? He looked weak, un-presidential, confused and under stress. He gives our troops and the American people NO HOPE. WE NEED CHANGE.

In regards to your claim that Mr. Kerry used deferments, let me tell you that TALK IS CHEAP AND ACTIONS SPEAK LOUDER THAN WORDS.

It’s funny you should try and discredit Mr. Wilson, when in March 7 the International Atomic Energy Agency stated that the documents provided by the U.S about the Niger-Iraq uranium claim were forgeries. Shortly thereafter a Whitehouse said “We fell for it”. Humm..... it seams to me you desperately want to re-write history.

It’s funny you should try and discredit Mr. Wilson, when in March 7 the International Atomic Energy Agency stated that the documents provided by the U.S about the Niger-Iraq uranium claim were forgeries. Shortly thereafter a Whitehouse said “We fell for it”. Humm..... it seams to me you desperately want to re-write history.

But then the Butler report came out in July and proved Joe Wison was a liar! Do you know what the Butler report is? I know it isn't as fun as reading Kitty Kelly books and watching Michael Moore movies, but it is an investigative report that came out in July from Great Britian. The intention was to prove Tony Blair wrong, but guess what? They were wrong! Have you actually looked at a newspaper or watched any kind of news since March? Because even the die hard Dems have pretty much given up on all this Bush lied, blood for oil, and Joe Wilson is our hero crap!

" find it hard to believe you are a teacher. My goodness, you are practically of the Britney Spears mentality. Americans should trust government. Americans should never question the president. If you disagree with the president you are un-American and a traitor. What the hell are you smoking? Give me some of that stuff and maybe I will start to read some of those Kittie’s novels that you’re talking about because the reality of where this country is going under the weak leadership of President Bush is sobering.

Is this out of the DNC play book? You run out of any kind of substance so you immediatly go to the insults. Well I couldn't have the Britney Spears mentality becasue she is voting for Kerry just like you. And I would believe my government before I would believe that fat freak Michael Moore! I never said the government is right about everything the way ou guys swallow everything Kerry, Carvel, or Moore says.

Where is the country going??? The econmy is getting stronger, home sales are at and all time high, the unemployment rate is lower than when Clinton was in office, we haven't had a terrorist attack in more than three years on American soil. So I don't know where you are living Chicken Little, but its not reality! You have Michael Moore disease! Cheer up things aren't that bad.

Sure Kerry recite statements, but the American people don't agree with his Global tests. He is inconsistent on the war. We don't have time to sit around and hope that he can make up his mind and come up with a plan. He doesn't have a clue! His answers (becasue that is what I listened to) were all over the place and just plain crazy!

The morale of the troops are not low at all. Overwhelmingly the military supports Bush. i have heard quite the opposite, they are scared to death that Kerry will get in there! Most of the soldiers believe in what they are doing over there. Go back up and read the article that I linked to you earlier.

"In regards to your claim that Mr. Kerry used deferments, let me tell you that TALK IS CHEAP AND ACTIONS SPEAK LOUDER THAN WORDS."

WHAT? That makes no sense! Kerry tried to avoid the war. He was only over there for four months! One month he trained at the Can Ranh Bay, which is basically a resort in Viet Nam. So you are ok with the fact that Kerry Betrayed his country? That sits well with you?

Bush won't let anyone speak against him? Well Michael Moore, James Carvel, Dan Rather etc. are still alive and kicking so what are you talking about?



Posted on 10/02/04 at 21:49

When I mentioned my brother, I mistakenly thought you might show some of that CONSERVATIVE COMPASSION your hypocrite president tries to fool the American people with, but you failed the test. There is nothing compassionate about you or your President for that matter. It seems to me, its ok with you that over 10,000 Iraq civilians have died as a result of this war. It’s ok to have over 1,000 of our soldiers die because the President misguided us into war. In a recent pool, forty percent of people in Iraq said they would prefer to have Sadam back. Are the people of Iraq much better off now than when Saddam was in power? I seriously question that thought.

Compassion is giving someone the right to do what they want with their lives! What about the compassion for the thousnads of people that Saddam tortured? Do you believe you are the only one who deserves the right to freedom? Where every life is precious we lost more American lives last year in traffic accidents (4,000) for a year and a hlf that is a very small amount.
Kerry said on June 30, 1971 on the Dick Cavett Show, John Kerry was asked if a bloodbath would occur if we pulled out of Viet Nam. Kerry said, " That there would be only about 5,000 people killed a number so small it was "lunacy" to talk about." Well he was WRONG again! 3.5 million people were estimated killed in the Communist purges in the end of the Vietnam War, including 2.5 million in the killing fields of Cambodia.

You see, I pray to God that nothing happens to your brother, but he did make a choice. We have a volunteer army and he took an oath. He didn't have to go, but he must believe in the casue. Freedom comes with a cost. I hate that one life is lost, but that is the price of freedom. And don't you think it is better than another 3,000 plus people that will die if another terrorist attack happens here?

That poll was probably a fabrication of another liberal who thinks they no better that the Iraqi people. Would you like to live under Saddam? How would you like to be raped in front of your husband and then have you baby thrown up against the wall?
They said the same kind of thing about South Vietnamese, that they wouldn't care. That they wouldn't know the difference between Communism and freedom. I am sure 3.5 million that were killed and the 1.5 refugees that were trying to escape would have felt differently. It is easy for someone who lives in a great country where you have the freedom to do and say what ever you want to speak for people who have lived under a tyrant. Your side has compassion?

Oh you poor baby! It’s ok to call me a big chicken and to dismiss and belittle my feelings in regards to my brother going to war, yet you can’t take it when I suggest you have a Brittney Spears mentality. GIVE ME BREAK!!! If you can’t take it then do not respond to my comments.

You still have not convinced or given me real substance to support your argument that John Kerry is a traitor. There is nothing wrong with speaking up to state that you are not in agreement with the Vietnam War. Isn’t Freedom of Free Speech our first amendment? LOL! On the other hand, if John Kerry had given the enemy military secrets or fought along side the enemy, then I would agree with you that John Kerry was a traitor.

You are right! I have no idea what the hell the Butler report is because MAYBE THE ARTICLE WAS PULISHED IN GREAT BRITIAN. In fact, I was going to ask you to provide me with a copy of the report but now that you state the news paper article is from England, I need see it no more because I find the International Atomic Energy Agency and for once the Whitehouse admitting “We fell for it” far more credible than an article written by someone I don’t know and perhaps written by someone with questionable political affiliations like John Novak.

In regards to where this is country is going; I don’t know what the hell you are talking about. Using the Ronald Regan analogy, all I have to do is simply ask myself “Am I better off now than I was for years ago?”, and my answer to that questions is HELL NO.

This is my realty:
• 9/11 happened and all your slacker president could do to curtail the threat in the 8 months he was in office was ignore Richard Clark’s pleas to be active instead of reactive. All your slacker president could do was ignore a PDF warning him that we were about to be attacked.
• Your President mislead us into war because he said Sadam had WMD’s and now it turns out there were none and as a tax payer I am having to pay to rebuild another country.
• My brother might get sent to go fight in Iraq for questionable reasons.
• My mother and father have no health care insurance and no job.
• My $300.00 tax refund has not helped me out at all because gas prices are ridiculously high, yet my wealthy family members and a few acquaintances that make over $100,000 per year received $40,000 tax break. Of course they do not really need the $40,000 tax break because they are extremely wealthy.
• My health care insurance and tuition costs have doubled since President Bush took office.
• Our borders are not secure and therefore the thought we are safer from a terrorist treat is ridiculous.
• Republicans in the state of CA, promote hate against poor hardworking Mexican illegal aliens.
• My list does not end there. Let me know if you need for reality checks.

You see the big difference between me and you is that I can admit when a Democratic politician sucks and must go. That is why I voted for Arnold as governor in the state of CA. You on the other hand are willing to jump of the cliff not matter what because your in denial about what a poor job President Bush has done in this time in office.

Naum, who's using talking points? Please! The shortsightedness of the liberal arguments are truly amazing.
And when will you quit with the service bullshit?
Grow up! You voted Clinton both times, who's record was worse than Bush by far. You had an option to vote for two WWII veterans, but of course that didn' matter, because they were Conservative. Now, it's cool to think about service? Bullshit. Let it go, finally. You guys sound more pathetic and whiny each time you try this shallow pretense at macho. Don't attempt to say the context is different. It won't work.

I'm not going to respond to anything CALatina says, it's transparent and too easy for me; too difficult for her to comprehend.

But, Naum.....you're smart. You have brains...I just don't get your sterotype rhetoric, straight off the bullshit bandwagon. My opinions are simply echoed on these radio shows. I READ...I know full well about he risks of pre-emptive action, but I support it completely. Try using a different analogy than a NEIGHBOR....that doesn't work.
Allawi a puppet! Oh..because he has hope an a vision and wants to achieve it. How defeatist of you and fellow libs! How HUMANE. Tell me this, Naum. How will Kerry work with Iraqi leaders, afer accusing current ones of being goddamn puppes of Bush.
BTW, links between Al Quaeda and Saddam are common knowledge. The Commission found no evidence of Saddam in the plots on the towers. Nice one.
Have a good weekend all. Keep the faith Kerrysucks! Bush will win and the libs will have another four years of doom, gloom and Moore sequels. Then they'll eagerly choose Hillary in the hopes she'll save their Utopia.

Oh you poor baby! It’s ok to call me a big chicken and to dismiss and belittle my feelings in regards to my brother going to war, yet you can’t take it when I suggest you have a Brittney Spears mentality. GIVE ME BREAK!!! If you can’t take it then do not respond to my comments.

I will admit I wanted so bad to just respond to you like this; "You are the weakest link! BYE BYE." But I am having to much fun!

YOUR THE BABY! YOUR THE ONE THAT ADMITTED CRYING ON YOUR PILLOW EVERY SINGLE NIGHT! I didn't call you a big chicken, I called you "Chicken Little" You know the sky is falling, due to your "our world is in despair" mentallity. I was trying to say "Buck up things are not that bad."

"You still have not convinced or given me real substance to support your argument that John Kerry is a traitor. There is nothing wrong with speaking up to state that you are not in agreement with the Vietnam War. Isn’t Freedom of Free Speech our first amendment? LOL! On the other hand, if John Kerry had given the enemy military secrets or fought along side the enemy, then I would agree with you that John Kerry was a traitor. "

Did you read Unfit for Command? The pictures are in the book of Kerry with Do Mui who is the Secretary of the Communist Party and Maddam Binh. The photo is an exhibit and displayed in the War Remments Museum in Ho Chi City. Kerry campaign does not dispute any of this.

My husband is Mexican! You know what he did? He started his own company by working hard. And as for your weatlhy family, so did they ! That is what makes people wealthy, working hard, not running to the government for help every five minutes! That is the freedom WE Americans have.

If your wealthy family is getting more back in taxes do you think it is because they pay more? According to the Irs look at this:

NEW UPDATED FIGURES: Top 20% Pay 80% of Taxes
New York Times Buries, But Reports, Truth on Taxes
CBO report misheadlined by New York Times still reveals truth...tscript, audio>
• CBO Report: Effective Federal Tax Rates Under Current Law, 2001 to 2014
• Posted Forever: Top 50% of Wage Earners Pay 96.03% of Income Taxes
• Excel file: IRS Income Stats
• Myth Buster: Democrats Get More Campaign Cash from "Rich"
I live in California too, and if you want to complain about the budget and the California economy it lands right in Grey Davis' lap! We had a 2million dollar surplus! He drove this state right into the ground!
I agree with you on the borders, something needs to be done. I don't believe Kerry will do anything about it. Bush is at least working on it, and YES it needs to be done quicker.

"In regards to where this is country is going; I don’t know what the hell you are talking about. Using the Ronald Regan analogy, all I have to do is simply ask myself “Am I better off now than I was for years ago?”, and my answer to that questions is HELL NO. "

First of all the economy took a dump March of 2000. If you go back and check your calendar, Clinton was still president. The .COMers ran the economy in the mid 90's and it stated to fall apart around that time. So Bush inherited the economy, then came 9/11. But now the economy is stronger. At least you got a tax break! What do you think will happen under Kerry? You can bet that you will never see a tax cut again! He says he is rolling back the tax breaks!

You can find the Butler Report on the internet. John Novak!? Oh boy! You are kidding right? This is what had me ROTFLMAO! Where have you been? The Butler Report was similar to the 9/11 commission in the US and investigation done about the war.
Here it is: I did it for you.

http://www.butlerreview.org...

I'll you had to do is Google it.

You see the big difference between me and you is that I can admit when a Democratic politician sucks and must go. That is why I voted for Arnold as governor in the state of CA. You on the other hand are willing to jump of the cliff not matter what because your in denial about what a poor job President Bush has done in this time in office.

Republicans are by no means perfect! I don't believe any president was perfect because they are human. They make mistakes. I just happen to agree with Bush. I am proud of you for voting for Arnold! But I am afraid Kerry is a lot like Gray Davis.

• 9/11 happened and all your slacker president could do to curtail the threat in the 8 months he was in office was ignore Richard Clark’s pleas to be active instead of reactive. All your slacker president could do was ignore a PDF warning him that we were about to be attacked.
• Your President mislead us into war because he said Sadam had WMD’s and now it turns out there were none and as a tax payer I am having to pay to rebuild another country.

Oh Boy! Ok by your logic Bush was president for 8 WHOLE MONTHS. What about 8 WHOLE YEARS of the Clinton admin? We were attacked 5 times during Clinton's watch! The only time Clinton did a thing about it was the day after he admitted he lied about Monica. HE DID NOTHING right up to the Cole which was October of 2000. Besides what we Kerry do? Ask all the other countries what he should do?

You arguments sound like they are regurgitated from college professors! Hey, I have been there, but a word of advice. College professors believe they are the "elites". They live in the protected world of "academia". But out in the real world a lot of their "Brillant' philosophies don't work.

Have a nice day!

Hi Neocon!

You are right! I have my chin way up!

CALatina is fun to respond to, almost too easy! Almost as fun as Zarq, but not quite as fun as Peacemaker. She is a college student getting fed lib propaganda by her professors. I feel kind of sorry for her. I guess it is the teacher in me to set her on the path of truth.

Good point on elections 92 and 96 where you had true war heros to vote for, I meant to write that one, but I missed it.
Excellent point, as always of Kerry working with Iraqi leaders after he calls them puppets.

Oh and did you hear about Kerry and the debate? I don't know if it is true, but it looks like Kerry cheated! I saw the video, and it looks like he has note cards! I know it is a big IF but wouldn't that be something. Look at drudge, it will probably talked about tomorrow.

Oh I am sorry I should have said, "Kudos" Noecon! You really know your stuff! LOL!

Kerrysucks – I agree with you that everyone has a right to be free but that is not, AND I REPEAT IS NOT how the President sold the war to the American People. Bush said we were going to war against Saddam because of WMD’s. Why is he changing his position on the reason for going to war? Where are the WMD’s? You see this is not a game to me. When the President is putting my brother in harms way, he DAM BETTER BE SURE HE WHAT HE IS DOING IS CORRECT.

At the moment I do not plan on reading Unfit for Command or what you have presented in the Butler report because I am reading the 9/11 commission report (I hope you don’t tell me the 9/11 commission report is also a scam), and lets just say that I trust what your telling me is true and that you have not misinterpreted what you claim is a picture of Kerry with Do Mui. How is that any different than President Bush posing in pictures, hugging and kissing the Saudi Royal family? Lets not forget that the 9/11 terrorists, came from Saudia Arabia. Let’s not forget that the Saudi Royal family allows the promotion of hate against America and also allows terrorist cells to exist in their own soil. Are you sure your precious president is not a traitor himself?

In regards to your CA surplus comment and how Gravis drove it right to the ground, Bush has done the exact same thing. What we have in the white house at the moment is pretty much a Gray Davis and that is one of the many reasons we need change.

The tax issue is not pleasant for anyone and my family and I are not asking the government to help us out, nor have we ever taken advantage of the system, but let me just say that I truly believe that when people are in need of some assistance, like my parents are at the moment, their government should help them out because in the end when they win, we all win. My parents have been law abiding citizens whom pay taxes and made their dream come true by finally paying off their home a few years ago. Bottom line is -- I simply want my parents to have decent paying jobs that allow them to pay for their own medical insurance and basic needs and right now that is simply not the case. Luckily, I have a job and this is the first time in their 31 years history of living in California that my parents are without a job.

Trying to blame 9/11 on President Clinton is ridiculous. You know I just got promoted to a managerial position on 9/1/2004 and I am now in charge of overseeing four employees in our accounting department. When I took over the managerial position, I inherited a huge problem in that my employees were short paying vendors because the daily electronic transmission of bills was not coming thru incorrectly. The system was losing electronic bills and we were only processing a ¼ of what we normally processing on a daily basis. Short paying vendors when quarter financial statements were due to come out this month was simply unacceptable because we would be understating expenses by about 7 million dollars. Let me just tell you that I didn’t sit there, wasted my time blaming the previous manager for not taking action. Instead I kicked some ass, got all the right people involved and demanded the problem be solved a.s.a.p. That is exactly what you president should have done when he got the PDF warning him that we were going to be attacked. If I had taken the action your president did when he ignored the PDF, I would have been fired. So don’t tell me to give Bush a break about 9/11 or the economy for that matter because President Clinton specifically advised him to make Al Quade his number one priority and he has also had plenty of time to do something more positive with the economy.

Ok CALatina,

Once again all this saudi crap is right out of the Michael Moore movie.

You don't even understand the common foundation of this country. It is not up to the government to help you to do anything. Get of your can and do it yourself. Its to bad about your parents, my dad lost his job ten years ago and he wenbt to interview after interview until he found one.

Didn't you hear about Sandy Berger? Here is the piece of the article;
"However, some drafts of a sensitive after-action report on the Clinton administration's handling of Al Qaeda terror threats during the December 1999 millennium celebration are still missing, officials and lawyers said. Officials said the missing documents also identified America's terror vulnerabilities at airports to seaports."

He stole these documents because Clinton wasn't honest when he proclaimed that he told Bush about Al Queda.
http://www.nationalreview.c...
york200407210837.asp

http://www.foxnews.com/stor...

You said yourself that when you became a manger you did something about it. Well why didn't Clinton for 8 years? Don't you see he set a precedent, when America gets attacked nothing happens, so they attack again and again.
Enough with the PDF warning Clinton got the same warnings no one new that this was going to happen until it happened. Didn't you read that part in the 9/11 commissions. Even they came to that conclusion.

Kerrysucks – I agree with you that everyone has a right to be free but that is not, AND I REPEAT IS NOT how the President sold the war to the American People. Bush said we were going to war against Saddam because of WMD’s. Why is he changing his position on the reason for going to war? Where are the WMD’s? You see this is not a game to me. When the President is putting my brother in harms way, he DAM BETTER BE SURE HE WHAT HE IS DOING IS CORRECT.

The whole world thought there were stock piles of wmds! According to the isarali intel they were shipped to Syria a few days before the war. I think one day we will find them. Your own arguement is that Bush needed to do something, Well we had just been attacked and their was a mad man out there and all the world's intel said he had them, ao if he did nothing and we got attacked again all the libs and you included would be having a spaz!

The difference between you and I is I READ more than just liberal books, I read the Michael Moore books and watched his movie, but you refuse to read anything like the Butler report of Unfit for Command. Sounds like Narrow mindness to me.

Bush didn't drive us into the ground the economy is better that it was at the end of the Clinton admin. Plus we went through 9/11.

Look at these articles!

http://www.cnsnews.com//Vie...
Just to answer anymore wmd Al queda questions you might have!

And we discussed how you said the the military hates Bush weeeelllllll...
http://www.usatoday.com/new...

WOW! Two in one day! Fnding al-queda connections, Saddams pursuit of wmds and the millitary by 4 to 1 wants Bush! The "I Hate America Crowd" must be hatin life!

Hmm, a news organization run by Brent Bozell, self-admitted extremist conservative partisan. There are credibility issues there at first glance. Zarqawi was in N.Iraq marshalling anti-Saddam forces, he was no friend of Hussiens and to imply so is to confess a deep ignorance of the region's political history.

hmmmm, funny how you don't believe this but you will believe Michael Moore. Face it, you are just sippin on the hater aide because IF or more like WHEN it comes out there were connections alot of the "I Hate America Crowd" Will have a lot of crow eating to do. Get your knives and forks ready.
Zarquawi is one of Al-Queda's top lieutenants. Even your favorite polital hacks, the 9/11 Commissions, wrote that!

Oh, and besides this article, and like Neocon said, the links are pretty much common knowledge, not news to those of us who haven't drank the Michael Moore kool aide.

LOL! I just got a visual of Michael Moore dressed with a red Kool Aide pithcer suit on breaking through a brick wall and Yelling, "Hey Kool Aide! YEaaahhh!"

Ok Kerry Love –
You are quick to dismiss what you call Saudi Crap, yet you were the one to point out that a picture of John Kerry with a Vietnam Communist politician is proof that he is a traitor. I guess the bottom line is that you can not produce a valid argument to convince me or anyone with half a brain that John Kerry traitor. There is a big difference between exercising your right of Freedom of Free Speech vs. being a traitor.

Next! I am glad you bring up what you call the foundation of this country. You state that I should get off my ass and help myself because the government is not obligated to help me in any way shape or form. Ok!!! Fair enough!!! I agree with you. I just want to explain to me why Republicans and the President are all up in my business or the business of any other women for that matter when it relates to our right to have an abortion? It’s my body!!!! Why should my government tell me what to do with it? Why should our government tell people who they can and can not marry? Why do we even bother helping the people of Iraq? According to you, shouldn’t they help themselves? Our government owes them nothing. Right!!!

Let say for one moment that I agree with you, which by the way I don’t, that President Clinton did nothing to help curtail a terrorist threat in the United States. Why should I excuse President Bush for ignoring the PDF? Please answer that question. You see in the real world your beloved President would have been fired for that mistake and let just say Clinton had ill advised George Bush--- wasn’t Richard Clark begging the White House to take more serious action?

As I recall the situation a few years back when Clinton bombed Al Queda camps in Afghanistan, what did the Republicans do? Instead of supporting their President, Republicans criticized him for doing a “Wag the Dog”. Do you remember that? Have you forgotten that thanks to Bill Clinton, Al Queda did not take over Bosnia when they tried to take over the fighting? Did you forget that Bill Clinton authorized the murder of Osama Bin Laden?

Maybe, just maybe, had all your retarded beloved Republican politicians, allowed Bill Clinton to his job instead of bothering him with all the Monica bullshit, just maybe he finished the job he started which was to finish off Osama Bin Laden in his Al Queda network.

You see, I’ll let you believe that I have a narrow because what you think means nothing to me but let me just say that in addition to your denial, the other big difference between you and I is that I don’t twist the truth to make my candidate look better.

I don't think you know what half this stuff means. If it is beyond your comprehension what a traitor is I can't help you. The Saudi link is right out of Michael Moore and has been debunked over and over again. Look up traitor in the dictionary. Look up Christopher Hitchens, he is a liberal writer, and he has debunked that whole theory of the Saudis.

Oh my God! Neocon was right about you! You are not even worth responding to. You are almost like a liberal cliche who has been living in a cave for about 6 months!

RIchard Clark LOL! OH MY GOD! WHERE HAVE YOU BEEN!???? I bet you cried on your pillow after his heart felt apologies to the families of the victims. When Mr. Clarke reported, six days after the 9/11 strikes, that no evidence existed linking them to Iraq, or Iraq to al Qaeda, he was reiterating the position he and others had taken throughout the Clinton years. They systematically turned a blind eye to such evidence and failed to pursue leads that might result in a conclusion of Iraqi culpability. These officials were charged with defending us "against all enemies." Their own prejudices blinded them to at least one of our enemies and left the nation vulnerable. Richard Clark is a political hack too! He was part of the Clinton admin. Rice blew is testimony away in the 9/11 hearings.

Republicans critized Clinton because he didn't notify both houses or the petnagon when he bombed a pharmaceutical factory. Why would he pick the day after he was proven an admitted liar to FINALLY do something? I mean he never did anything before or after. You have to admit that it is very strange, and why weren't you out there protesting? I mean wasn't he being a big meanie bombing innocent children? Did you forget that Clinton was offered OBL THREE times by the Sudanese? But he turned them down. He was probably to busy playing hide the cigar with Monica.

" You see, I’ll let you believe that I have a narrow because what you think means nothing to me but let me just say that in addition to your denial, the other big difference between you and I is that I don’t twist the truth to make my candidate look better. "

LMAO! LMAO! LAMO! WHAT? LMAO!
That has got to go into the hall of fame! Have you heard of Farenheit 9/11? You know the movie you quote over and over. The movie that you get all your info from. Talking about twisting the truth GOOG LORD!

Abortion? You do have a choice! Before you go to bed with someone USE something! I am surpised that you don't know how the pregnancy works! In this day and age if you make a choice and not use anything there is going to be a consequence. Actually pregnancy would be the least of your worries. Why should a life be sucked out (and that is what happens) because you are not responsible? You are not an animal, I mean you do have higher level thinking skills don't you? There are plenty of contraceptives available.

Bush never said who you should marry. I think you are confusing Bush with Joe Millionaire!

Iraqis couldn't get off their cans and help themselves because they were living under a dictator! Duh! I thought you were comapssionate and tolerant? They don't deserve freedom? It takes time setting up a democracy you know. It will benefit us to you know. Free middle east=no more terror attack.

Oh my God. For the first time today, I saw the Michael Moore movie you claim I continually quote and let me just tell you that if indeed you saw that movie and you continue to support that thing whom claims to be the President of the United States, I can only conclude that you are stupid and beyond hope. I don’t care to even bother with you anymore. My God help you and may God help us all if George Bush wins this upcoming election.

That's pathetic! I guess Micheal Moore must be God ? I mean when a fat film maker says something, it must be "gospel". I guess you ran out of your talking points huh?

YOU ARE THE WEAKEST LINK! BYE BYE!

A great article oin Captain's Quarters titled: "Surprise! Saddam Said"
http://www.captainsquarters...

It's taken from an LA Times story discussing the Duelfer Report.
A must read Kerrysucks.

The same blogger also notes the Duelfer Report concludes Chirac was bribed by Saddam. Oh yes, the United Nations, an organization working for the biggest buck. Here is the news story.
http://news.scotsman.com/in...
Captain's Quarters summarizes the report perfectly: Saddam was bribing key members of the UN to keep the US atbay (Oil for Food my ass); the bribes were also warming the UN to turn their backs on further sanctions so Saddam could get back to business as usual (the WMD factory was in perfect order).
In other words.....two down, one more to go.

Interesting article, Neocon…

…I wonder why you spare Cheney & Halliburton condemnation – as it's been documented that while Cheney was head of Halliburtton, Halliburton conducted business with Iraq & Iran in defiance of sanctions and profited quite handsomely from said dealings.

Naum, I spared that criticism for you to write about.
I've yet to see, or hear a critique on the damaging UN scandals with Saddam Hussein; or a note of his ambitions of rebuilding a WMD program.

Good articles Neocon! It was a matter of time before Saddam was going to "Go Off' like a ticking time bomb. Well it all makes sense. Good ole France Germany and Russia! France even promising a veto vote in the UN.

Look at this article too!

http://www.washingtontimes....

Maybe when an independent source can get hold of the documents that are indicting, we can ascertain whether or not this is another one of Chalabi's web of lies. An individual, if you well recall, has a criminal history and has produced phony intelligence to further his own cause.

>>I've yet to see, or hear a critique on the damaging UN scandals with Saddam Hussein; or a note of his ambitions of rebuilding a WMD program.

But yes, feel free, to climb aboard the Moonie express.

No doubt there was corruption and bribery present to some degree. But still, at least oil was flowing then... ...now it's been taken off the market...

Ahhh....theMoonie Express. So yesterday Naum, this warwas allabout Bush's quest for an oil empire. Today youbitch that none is flowing. Scratch one conspiracy off the Leftist List.

I guess we'll have to wait for those Independent sources: Salon, MOVEON, Josh Marshall.....I wouldn't hold my breath, though, they're still licking their chops atthe news of no WMD's found.

Feel free to take another ride on the Loonie Express, Naum. BTW, from one man to another, enjoy another good Cardinals weekend. San Fran should go down easy.

Kerrysucks, stay alive!!!

Hey Neocon,

I am staying alive! Did you hear what Kerry said about terrorism being a nuisance? What the hell is that!? Good Lord where they hell was he on 9/11? It disturbs me how these libs view what happened on 9/11! Scroll down and read the comments made by Giulani about Kerry and terrorism. He is talking about the NYT article.

http://www.powerlineblog.com/

What makes me soo confused is that if Jesus was alive today, he would despise Republicans. And ironically it is the Republicans who use them as their mascot. Cheney and the rest of the Conservatives would be trying persecute the guy and would label him an anti-american hippie. Jesus wouldn't care if you believed in him, he would only care for what you believed in. Jesus taught people to love their neighbor and treat all humans with respect and kindness. Jesus would be pro-choice, for the homosexual marriage, against the death penalty, against ridiculous wars where unlike abortion, young are actually dying for a mistake, and most definitely against an economy where the rich get richer and the lower class remains stricken with poverty. If Jesus were alive today, hed be leading a crusade against the republican party because it stands for everything that Jesus is against.

Word of advice, READ YOUR BIBLE!

Hey there Mr Bush is a fool -Under the Bush Administrations, I belive our freedoms are less secure than they were when the country was first founded. It is unsettling to know that the President of the United States make decisions regarding stem cell research based on his religious beliefs. Why is he imposing on me belies that may not apply to me? It is also unsettling to know that he is willing to restrict the rights of certain members of society, particularly the gay community. Next thing you know he will be restricting the right of Hispanics, Blacks, Asian and god only know what other group the Republicans hate. One can argue that perhaps from a moral standpoint the President is correct on abortion or gay rights, but then one must also wonder why President Bush was adamant about going to war against Iraq when God’s teaching promote forgiveness and that killing another human being is wrong. Why then are the President’s moral beliefs not brought up into question? Maybe it’s because mixing religion and government will never work. It's just wrong to prostitute religion for political gain.

Then you will agree that with two and a half weeks to go and all of a sudden Kerry is "religious", Is he doing it for political gain?

Bushisafool and Calatina are perfect examples of why I'm a Republican. Jesus pro-choice......I just can't help but wonder how much more fun this would be with Howard Dean as Pres wannabee.

Republicans are for the most part a bunch of hypocrites. I could never be a part of a group of individuals that promotes hate for others. Here in California for example; there is a Republican propaganda movement against illegal immigrants. Republicans claim my people are horrible individuals whom take advantage of the system, yet your party fails to understand that most of you would also cross the border if you were in their shoes. Let me clarify that I do believe or borders have to be closed off, but at the same time I want to ask you: where is your compassion for their struggle to make a better life for themselves? You see I believe it is immoral to deny Illegal immigrants emergency health care. If the United States Government has billions of dollars available for the purpose of rebuilding another country, then the government can afford the expense of saving the life of another human being regardless of their citizenship status. The illegal alien issue will be solved when employers stop hiring non legal individuals. If there are no jobs offered, then these individuala will return to their home country. Your party claims that socialism is bad, yet when it’s to your party’s convenience, suddenly it’s ok to purse a socialist cause in another country.

In regards to abortion, I believe it’s none of your business or the President’s for the matter what I do with my body. If don’t want an abortion, then I won’t have one. I simply don’t want my government making that decision for me.

So by your standards its not ok to kill terrorists, but innocent babies, because YOU wanted to go out and have unprotected sex. So let the baby get sucked out an torn apart because your and ignorant fool!

Look up hyocrite in the dictionary and you see a picture of a Democrat. The "oh so tolerant " Democrats who are tolerant and loving. They want Peace and justice for all, (except for babies, Christians, Republican minorities, and any other person that doesn't happen to agree with their twisted logic). These First admedment rigths activists who are trying to get Unfit for Command not to be published and Stolen Honor off the air waves, and yet they stand firmly behind that crapfest F-9/11.

Do whatever you want to with your body, but there is a life inside that you don't have any right to destroy because you were to lazy to use a condom.

I never suggested that it was not ok to kill a terrorist. Why do you always twist my comments? The point I was trying to get across in regards to my hypocrite comment is that your party claims to be anti socialist, yet when it suites their needs, suddenly it’s ok to purse a socialist cause like abortion, denying gay people the right to marry, or going to Iraq to supposedly free the people, which by the way is not the reason Bush went to Iraq in the first place. I my opinion, you pro-life people should be just as passionate about saving the life of innocent citizens in Iraq and denying medical care to illegal citizens as saving the life of an unborn child.

In addition, women don’t go have an abortion because its fun. You tend to simplify the issue. Women sometimes have no choice but to have an abortion because contraceptives did not work, the woman is the victim of rape, the health of women is at risk or something is medically wrong with the fetus. As usual, you always dismiss the content of my comments when you have noting else, but a bunch of hot air to add.

Your little comment about the First Amendment is laughable. Never in the history of this country has a group of people, like the Republicans tried so hard to suppress the right of others like Howard Stern and Michael Moore to speak up in public, simply because it was not favorable to your candidate.

We are anti socialist! Do you know what Socialism is?? Republicans are capitalists. Socialism is almost like communism, where it has proven to fail only every time it is tried.
America was founded on Judeo Chrisitian values, that probably explains why every state where gay marriage was voted was defeated badly. It was put to a vote and the people didn't want it!
I went through the reasons why we went to war with Iraq already. I know it wasn't covered in your riduclous Michael Moore movie, by the way, that was the stupidest movie I have ever seen in my life! I can't beleive people are stupid enough to believe it. Point by point the movie has been disproven!

"In addition, women don’t go have an abortion because its fun. You tend to simplify the issue. Women sometimes have no choice but to have an abortion because contraceptives did not work, the woman is the victim of rape, the health of women is at risk or something is medically wrong with the fetus. As usual, you always dismiss the content of my comments when you have noting else, but a bunch of hot air to add."

It is still a life. I originally went to school to become a nurse, but I switiched over to education. My professor had about thirty jars of babies that we aborted. They had their arms and legs pulled off and some were a mess of mangled flesh. She said NEVER let anyone tell you that these babies don't go through a horrible amount of pain. If they do they are lying to you. She was present during many abortions and heard their screams. I think it is WRONG to murder a child becasue YOU don't want to get fat. And A LOT of women are to LAZY to use something because they use abortions as a method of birth control.

" Your little comment about the First Amendment is laughable. Never in the history of this country has a group of people, like the Republicans tried so hard to suppress the right of others like Howard Stern and Michael Moore to speak up in public, simply because it was not favorable to your candidate. "
LOL! You are such a Moron! Michael Moore made a over a HUNDRED MILLION DOLLARS with his movie! Is he in jail? And Howard Stern just signed with Sirius making millions! The government didn't supress either. Howard worked for CLear Channel ( a privately owned company) he is STILL on the air, Viacom even picked him up for nine more stations! So how have Republicans or Bush suppressed them?

YOU ARE THE WEAKEST LINK! BYE BYE!

Politics is so fascinating. CALatina states she couldn't be a Republican because they're hypocrites and promote hate. Strange, I feel the exact same way about the Democrats. In fact, hate is necessary for a liberal today (with exceptions to Naum; he's a good man).

Your words are easily twisted, because you don't think. BTW, who is "my people". We're all Americans.
We are all compassionate and feel very sorry for the plight of the Mexican people. What pisses me off about both pilitical parties is that they won't hold the Mexican Government responsible for this problem. Good God, but when the government hands out survival packs to its people and condescends the US for not having facilities in the desert, it's time to tell that government to get their shit straight and cut off trade, aid and everything else until they do.

It's coming down to this: a wall will have to be built to solve this problem: businesses won't stop hiring, because the consumer won't pay high prices; Bush, or a Dem government can't close the borders without sealing it off. So I ask, do you favor a hugew wall? I doubt it. In other words, no one seems to want a solution, just band aids when the cut bleeds too much.

As far as abortion is concerned, you libs have lost the argument by supporting late terms; no parental consent; complete federal funding of embryonic stem cells and attempting to make us taxpayers pay for all of this. I have no problem with abortions when necessary, but it's become birth control and you all defend it with tooth and nail. You can't simplify any more than that.

And don't even bring up Republican attempts to shut up Howard Stern. Pay attention will you! He's now making 500 million over five years.

Now here is some good humor:

Little Johnny was in his 5th grade class when the teacher asked the children what their fathers did for a living.
All the typical answers came up --fireman, policeman, salesman, doctor, lawyer, etc.

Johnny was being uncharacteristically quiet and so the teacher asked him about his father.

"My father's an exotic dancer in a gay cabaret and takes off all of his clothes in front of other men.
Sometimes, if the offer's really good, he'll go out into the alley with some guy and make love with him for
money."

The teacher, obviously shaken by this statement, hurriedly set the other children to work on some exercises and took little Johnny aside to ask him, "is that really true about your father?"

"Nah," said Johnny, "He works for the Kerry campaign, but I was too embarrassed to say that in front of the other kids."

LOL! That was funny!

Hmm, how about those Scandanavian countries that have higher standard of living, less abortions, etc... ...I believe they are all "socialist". Not that Republicans won't embrace socialism or totalitarian measures when it suits their interests (NCLB, military industrial complex, Patriot Act, secretive government, etc...

>>We are anti socialist! Do you know what Socialism is?? Republicans are capitalists. Socialism is almost like communism, where it has proven to fail only every time it is tried.

Also, please refer to a previous article where it's well documented that abortion occurs much less under Democrat administrations and in European "welfare states" than it does under Republican administrations and all over Latin America where it is illegal.

And illegal immigration has nothing to do with higher consumer prices – the labor cost on most goods and services comprises such a small portion (< 5%) that even doubling or tripling wages paid would have no impact. Stopping illegal immigration would be an easy task if simply punitive measures were enforced against those hiring.

Neo – when I refer to my people, I mean to include people whom come from my background –Mexicanos. It’s funny you should state we are all American because more often than not, right winged talk show hosts do not make me feel like I am part of America, especially when I hear them spewing hate about how illegal immigrants are dirty, lazy, stupid, unworthy of education and emergency health care. My parents were once illegal immigrants; therefore, I can never be supportive of a group of individuals whom promotes lies and hate for others.
In contrast, Democrats have always welcomed me and my people to their own political party. When I had the honor of meeting President Bill Clinton at his book singing in California, I was amazed at the diversity of people from all kinds of various backgrounds - rich, poor, Asians, African Americans, Hispanics, Caucasians, Persians and so on, whom stood in line for eight hours just to shake his hand. It was truly amazing. I doubt I will ever see such a line being formed for President Bush.
By the way, I respect your point of view much more than that of your Republican counterpart, Kerrylove. I respect the fact that you recognize that there are instances in which a woman has no choice but to have an abortion. I also agree with you that the Mexican government has to be held accountable for the illegal alien issue and perhaps it not a very bad idea to cut off aid and trade as you stated in you previous comment.
In regards to Howard Stern, I believe what he has stated over his situation is correct. Clear Channel fired him because he spoke up against President Bush. The amount of money Howard is making is not the issue in question. What should be questioned is the reason Howard Stern was fired from Clear Channel.

You guys watch way toooooooooooo mcuh Michael Moore movies!

As far as education NCLB, we have to have standards, scores have improved! Remember I have seen scores form my school go sky high because we have to perform or else money is no longer allocated to us.
To understand the Patriot Act you have to uderstand the existing laws. Nothing in the Patriot trumps existing laws. Don't listnen to the Michael Moore movie. Remember he is a movie maker not a LAWYER.

What have deomcrats done for you? I know they TALK about doing things for minoriites. For 40 years we have had heard them spot off about health care, during the Clinton admin. they had full control of both houses, and what did they do? NOTHING. YOu are being duped by people who "feel your pain" but they do nothing but scare monger. They want to keep you down. Don't you seee if you rely on the government, they have the control? You will have to depend on them. Plus this country is about working harder and helping yourself! Not running off crying to the government. I told you my husband is Mexican, he has opened his eyes why can't you? Where does all this help come from? Taxpayers! So why should people who get out of bed and work everyday have to bend over backwards for people who want to sleep tell noon, smoke crack, and watch Jerry Springer?

CLEAR CHANNEL IS A PRIVATE BUSINESS! IT IS NOT THE GOVERNMENT! THEY CAN DO WHAT THEY WANT! IT IS A FREE COUNTRY!

>>CLEAR CHANNEL IS A PRIVATE BUSINESS! IT IS NOT THE GOVERNMENT! THEY CAN DO WHAT THEY WANT! IT IS A FREE COUNTRY!

Um, the airwaves belong to the public…

CLEAR Channel is a privately owned company and they fired him, not the government, and they had every right to, just like Viacom had every right to pick him up in nine markets. The airwaves belong to the public, but companys hire/fire the talent. Stern cost them over a million in fines. I would be fired if I used the language he used with my students.

You have the right to say what you want to, but their are consequences, not by the government, but the private sector.

It is like the Sundance Channel, it is owned by Robert Redford. He has had a lot of pro Kerry talent/films on.

What do you think about that teacher who had a picture of Bush up in her room and they fired her?

It amazes me how hypocritical the left is, this is the same left that squawked about Stern but then tuns around and goes to the FCC about Stolen Honor. They want to say whatever THEY want, but when it comes to someone they disagree with it's they want to censor.

That's not why she was fired - she was let go because she used her teacher position to play partisan hack, and telling a student "you should be ashamed to be a Democrat".

http://www.peteholiday.com/...

>>What do you think about that teacher who had a picture of Bush up in her room and they fired her?

She had the picture up along with all the other presidents on her wall. I never heard that she said that, I heard that a parent demanded that a pictue of Kerry be put on the wall. But let's say she did say it. Wouldn't that be Freedom of speech? Notice how she got fired for hanging a BUSH picture. Doesn't quite fit with the Republican tolalitarianism and secret government theory does it?

Did you read the link I posted?

Her job wasn't to indoctrinate the students into Team GOP. She wasn't hired to run GOP campaign, she was there to teach and she didn't get fired for hanging a Bush picture.

""Ms. Pillai-Diaz is a new Language Arts teacher in the South Brunswick Schools. Recently, the school administration began receiving complaints from students and parents that Ms. Pillai-Diaz was using her position, classroom and teaching time to engage in partisan politics. Students reported that she had made statements which denigrated one party over the other. The conversations included Ms. Pillai-Diaz telling some students who offered opinions contrary to her statements, that she was “glad they were not old enough to vote.” Other comments to students, including such statements as, “you should be ashamed to be a Democrat” have been verified through student interviews. A classroom bulletin board, normally intended for curriculum-related matters, was set up as what she herself described as a “personal bulletin board.” On the bulletin board she placed a picture of the President, the President's dog, the Oval Office and several other Presidential artifacts. In addition, she placed a stuffed elephant on a classroom cabinet, which generated student reaction and discussion about partisan politics. Following receipt of complaints from parents, the Assistant Principal met with Ms. Pillai-Diaz and cautioned her not to engage in partisan political discussions in her Language Arts classes. He did not initially ask her to remove the picture of the President. As the issue grew in intensity, the teacher herself chose to remove the stuffed elephant because of student comments. In the ensuing days, parents expressed increasing concern about the teacher's classroom behavior, the misuse of classroom instructional time and the personal bulletin board. The level of concern resulted in a classroom confrontation between some parents and Ms. Pillia-Diaz at the Back-to-School night program. It was at this point that the school administration decided to intervene again.""

Don't you feel silly now?

You really sound like a Fox News viewer, only seeing half a story (or a made-up story) and then blathering about.

Check this out! Speaking of trying to inhibit free speech, Republicans ask Prosecutors to arrest Michael Moore for speaking up and registering voters in his home state of Michigan:

http://www.michaelmoore.com...

I have never heard of Pete Holiday, but here is another rather liberal station you know and probably love;

http://abclocal.go.com/wabc...

AND
http://www.nj.com/news/ledg...

So as you can see I do look at more than just one source.
(Pete Holiday)

Besides you totally missed my point, I was talking about Free speech! I asked what YOU thought about it. Also, that is nothing when I was in college my liberal professors told us who to vote for and said horrible about Republicans. Are you outraged about that? Should they have been fired? That was the point I was trying to make.

You should be the one feeling silly because you missed the whole point!

CALatina,

You pray to Michael Moore don't you?

You can't buy votes, he was offering people underware, photos, chips etc. for voting. You can't do that. Its against the law.

http://www.frontsteps.com/c...

This one is for you Neocon. A little humor back at you!

Good Gates! I give up… …this is a release from SOUTH BRUNSWICK TOWNSHIP PUBLIC SCHOOLS SUPERINTENDENT, backing up and supporting principal and assistant principal.

It's not a case of what she represented, there was a bunch of stuff she did not mention.

>> have never heard of Pete Holiday, but here is another rather liberal station you know and probably love;

Once again I could really care less we were talking free speech that was the point.

Did it occur to you that is THIER side of the story? In these situations they always back up the adminsitration, that is why we have teacher's unions.

Regardless, ladies and gentlemen, the teacher should have been a liberal; the she could say all she wanted, ridicule kids whose parents are Republicans and still keep her job. (wink wink)....

Clear Channel was fined by the FCC for Howards show as a reaction to the slut whore Michael Jackson(oops, I mean Janet-looks just like him). They canned Howard, who started screaming about conspiracies by the Bush Admin. This led to a firestorm from the libs (Newcomb included), who parroted the shit.

Ironically, this so-called attempt to "silence" Howard's criticisms of Bush led to a contract with Viacom, re-entry into the markets lost by Clearchannel and now a 500 MILLION DOLLAR contract to do XM. Now STOP with the conspiracy crap!!!!!!
He should be thanking the FCC for making him more popular than ever!
Besides, do you really think Howard is serious with his griping and moaning about the loss of "Free Speech"? He's playing the violin to get more audience; he's pretty smart. All he needs to do to land more audience and cash is to play victim, cry about the end of free speech and the end of the Glory Days-AND to bitch and moan about the EVIL George Bush. It's so easy.... He's a very smart player.

You are right again Neocon!
I have listened to Howard for the last three years. He made a lot of sense about the war on terror until the Janet Jackson Incident. Howard likes to be the rebel. I have since stopped listening to him because I couldn't take the non stop whinning and Bush bashing. It is a shame too, because I miss hearing Artie.

Did you check out Kerry's bad rap?

You are such a die hard. You accuse me of prying to Michael Moore, yet I am quite sure you have a temple setup for George Bush. LOL! I can totally envision you chanting and praying to the conservative Gods your boy wins this up coming election. LOL!

By the way, I would never allow a teacher to tell my child who they should or should not support politically. I am quite sure you would not appreciate it, if a fellow teacher were telling your child to support Bill Clinton or John Kerry. It’s not the place of any teacher, especial one who teaches art, to misuse her position as an educator for the purpose of misguiding a young student.

Let me see! What is a bigger crime? Disfranchising 58,000 Floridian’s who were mainly African American or giving out free under underwear at speaker/voter registration rally’s? I am pretty sure that at least morally, disfranchising people from their right to vote is the bigger crime. Katherine Harris should be behind bars.

GO RED SOCKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

SOX....We agree on something! The Yankees suck!!

See you don't even know what the hell your talking about! You have your head so far up Micahel Moore's underware you can't see straight!

That is not true about the voter disenfrachising, That is the left scare mongering African Americans! All that BS is once again from the Micahel Moore movie. Katherine Harris did not count any votes. If you want to get upset about something get upset that the MSM called Florida before the polls closed depressing the vote. When they called it for Bush all the polls were closed! This has been come to known as the "Florida Effect". Plus talking about depressing the vote, what about all the military votes that Gore went to court to get thrown out in the 2000 election? You know the soldires that have their rears on the line for all of us! The votes that Gore wanted "every one to count". They recounted the votes every way from Sunday and Bush still won (USA Today, and Miami Herald), Another study was NYT and Wall Street Journal UNDER THE CRTIERIA THAT GORE WANTED! Gore even wanted every vote for Pat Buchanan to count for him! Here is an article debunking your Michael Moore claims;

http://davekopel.com/Terror...

Oh, and Dave Kopel is a democrat!

Here are some articles on African American voter disenfranchising.

http://www.townhall.com/col...

http://www.worldnetdaily.co...

http://frontpagemag.com/Art...

Teachers by the ed code are not suppose to give their opinions on polictics or religion. I agree with that. Teachers are there to teach not preach.

Finally something we can agree on! I am want the Red Sox to win the ALCS, but I am A STL fan!

I feel bad for the poor Red Sox fans, they look like they are going to pass out!

Dave Kopel is a shill for Republican sugar daddy Coors foundation.

http://www.dailykos.com/sto...

Much of his "debunking" is either (a) ticky-tacky irrelevant shit or (b) stuff he's recanted since, giving the point up…

>>Oh, and Dave Kopel is a democrat!

Did you even read it? Or are you so brainwashed by Michael Moore you can't see straight?

Try this then. It is by a 17 year old.

http://www.larryelder.com/9...

http://slate.msn.com/id/210...

That one is by Christopher Hitchens, another lib.

And two more libs Michael Isikoff and Mark Hosenball
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/533...

Does anyone see a pattern here? If they don't agree with Michael Moore or Kerry they are a Republican Shill.

Even your own liberal website admits that Michael Moore isn't factual, and didn't make the movie for politacl junkies or for people to look up info, but to make things appear the Michael Moore thinks they should. Your site also admits that Moore is VERY careless with his facts, but I guess that's what being a liberal is all about, ignoring the fact as long as it feels good.

Look, debating with you is an exercise in futility - you speak of things you know not of. If you saw the freaking movie, you'd realize that Michael Moore doesn't "say anything", he simply spliced video footage favorable to his cause. Yes, it was selective and contextual… …but still powerful in some respects, even I thought some of it was over the top, but the major theme was true.

Isikoff has no credibility with me, especially after I've read the works of Conason & Lyons and his duplicity in carrying forth the charges originating in White Supremacist organizations...

Hitchens has zero credibility and is just a silly pundit.

The best article you cited was the one by the "17 year old", but even that was a partisan screed that misses the mark IMV:

* Florida vote - consortium recount revealed that a full state recount under the letter of Florida law (which I know that Gore did not ask for, at least he didn't press it...), would have awarded state to Gore. Also, military voting in districts favorable to Bush/Cheney were at levels 5X the average volume of past elections with most not postmarked and tallied despite the "rule of law", and worse, a NY Times investigation discovered that Bush/Cheney "cherry-picked" the mail-in challenges, following the law in counties favorable to Gore but charging supression and to count ballots in counties favorable to Bush despite it being against the law.

* Florida vote 2 - As was revealed by State of Florida court settlement (admitting guilt) with NAACP, black voters were suppressed by erroneous felon list and other civil rights violation measures.

* Election night - I don't think the initial Gore call 10 minutes early didn't affect anything - to say it did is to be blindly partisan IMV. But the calls by NBC (where NBC refused to share tape to discount reports that Jack Welch, rabid Republican, ordered the election be called for Bush) and FOX (where the cousin of GWB was election night chief), did have a major effect, labeling GWB as a winner, when the whole election was in limbo, in doubt.

* Bush/Saud connection - the stuff there was taken from *House of Saud* by Craig Unger. I'm guessing you didn't read it… …there's a long history of Bush/Saudi relations that goes far beyond the "Carlyle Group". And many of the 911 hijackers (I believe 15 of 19 were Saudi citizens) had close ties to the royal family.

* Flights - private jets flew out on 9/13 (as since verified by Tampa Tribune), reported by air marshalls and FBI in film, before the 9/14 reopening of COMMERCIAL air travel. Special taxi flights were used to shuttle these connected individuals out of the country with nary a question. FACT.

* FBI memos detailed threat of airplanes crashing into buildings before 911.

* Patriot Act - biggest point made was that act was passed and wasn't even read or studied before being signed. That's the point of the stunt...

* Congressman kids - here is the quote from the movie - "Out of the 535 members of Congress, only one had an enlisted son in Iraq." - true at the time

Kerrysucks: You're doing just fine. Every liberal who sides with the conservatives is a schill, or neocon parrot with no credibility.
I would simply say this, as I'velearned. Forget Moore; it gives him too much credit to keep on referencing the asshole.

There was no disenfranchisement in Florida; at least not the stories that Dems love to tell(blacks being turned away, 1 million black voteslost,yadda yadda).

I actually agree with Naum on the early Florida call. In my mind, if people went home after hearing that, without voting for local and state initiatives and candidates- they're idiots. As far as hisother claims about NBC and FOX-whatever.

Bush/Saud connection. Bullshit as far as how far the libs want to go with this. Just total bullshit.

Flights: Moore's interpretation (oops, I referenced him) has been thoroughly debunked by everyone, including Clarke. The flighhts were approved. DONE. Little details by Naum are probably accurate, but he's fishing on thread to prove Moore was still TECHNICALLY accurate (yadda).

Congress Kids: again, technically accurate, but Moore had other intentions that worked like magic for the anti-war crowd, and looked incredibly stupid an imbecilic to the logical minded, normal crowd. Of course, that's the whole story on Moore, anyway.
All defenders of the man and his movies rely on TECHNICAL ACCURACY of the footage, and ignore the DEMENTED, PERVERSE story he weaves with these accurate pictures and video.

He's similar to Edward Munch- although Munch was a good artist.

I HAVE SEEN THAT STUPID MOVIE! IT WAS LAUGHABLE! I kept saying to myself who would be stupid enough to buy into this movie! It's a propaganda movie! That is all it is.

MICHAEL MORE IS A FILM MAKER! He isn't even from Flint, Michigan like he calims to be. He is a fraud just like his moive!

The point about the 17 year old is that even a 17 year old is wise enough to see through this crap! If you took time to read it all of her points are referenced and factual.

Gore DID ask for them to count every pregnant chad, and he wanted them to guess what the voter intended. I read the book called the "Florida Effect" It goes into the whole 2000 election and in the pan handle of Florida the votes were depressed. I am not crying about it, but the point is when they called it for Bush when the polls were already closed. I agree that people should never have gone home, but if they want to bitch and moan about Gore, it was actually less fair to Bush is the point I am trying to make.

Clinton admin knew that Saddam was a danger and DID NOTHING! Hell the USS COLE was hit in October of 2000 and NOTHING was done! Clinton was offered UBL THREE TIMES and DID NOTHING! It drives me crazy when people want to blame Bush for 9/11 and they say nothing about Clinton when he was in office for EIGHT YEARS!

Most of the points I was goint to make were made by Neocon. So thank you Neocon for saving me a lot of time! He is right on as usual! Ricahrd Clark, the Saudi connection etc.!
The military vote I was talking about was the absentee ballots where Gore went to court to get them thrown out! While proclaiming he wanted "EVERY VOTE TO COUNT!" Most of the mistakes that were made in Florida were made by Democrats that were in charge! They had dead people voting etc. What about voting violations in St. Louis and Detroit that were made by the Dems in 2000? I could go on and on.
Look at the Larry Elder articles I gave to CALatina,there is a transcript of an interview with Peter Kirsankof. It talks about the African American, so called, voter disenfranchising.

My advice to you Naum, is to quit being so one sided and look beyond Michael Moore. don't dismiss everyone who doesn't agree with you as a Republican schill.

Neocon,
I totally agree with you about Michael Moore. I hate bringing him up too, but it seems like every time I get in a disagreement with a lib the facts they bring up are from that movie! I didn't realize how much until I actually I watched it. It is unbelievable and scary how much they believe in it! Most of the movie has already been debunked since its release! It was hard to watch, but it was so ridiculous and laughable too! I think every debate I have been in since that movie was releashed is verbatim from that movie!

Oh my God! Did you guys see the Game? I am so happy and excited for the Red Socks and what’s most amazing is that they WON in the New York. Boston will be my pick to win the World Series.

I have often said that Baseball is beautiful, magical and the most inspirational game in the entire world because it transcends all. No mater what our differences may be, it’s nice to know there are others who appreciate the game as much as I do.

GO BOSTON!!!!!!!!!!!!!

YES!
I HATE THE YANKEES! GO BOSTON!
THEY WERE WICKED GOOD!

I agree about baseball, I like it but I LOVE football! I am a HUGE NOTRE DAME FAN! More like a fanatic! I even teach the kids at school the Notre Dame fight song!

This Series will be tough to watch. Of course, everyone wants to see the Red Sox break the 1918 curse, but I also like both St Louis and Houston. I've been playing fantasy ball ther last 4 years; some of the best hitters are on these teams.

My wife and watched the last three games this week. She noted how no Yankees stood up to cheer when they scored Tuesday night, with the exception of Jeter. Her conclusion: the Yanks deserved to lose if they had no enthusiasm. Now she says she'll have to change her opinion of Jeter.

Notre Dame fan? But you're in Cally; you're not a Pac-10 supporter? Especially after USC destroyed our local Sun Devils?

CALatina, I sincerely agree with you. What I'm fascinated about baseball is the non-ending, statistics. There's literally one for everything. Fantastic and complicated!

I HATE USC! They have the most annoying fans! Their fans remind me of the Yankee fans. Very cocky and no class! My dad is fromm St. Louis and most of my family is there. I have probably been to more STL games then Dodger games. In the mid west Notre Dame is HUGE! My dad is a big fan! I have been watching the games since I was a baby! Out here I have to hear it about how great USC is. It disgusts me! They hate Notre Dame too! So when I wear my jackets, sweatshirts, t-shirts etc. I hear about it! I watch both the Notre Dame game and the USC games every week. I want Notre Dame to win and USC to loose. I watched the Sundevils last week! I was a Sundevil fan in a huge way last week! :) USC can't win the National Championship again this year! It is just DISGUSTING!
My husband and I watched the Boston game too! We are so going for the Red Soxs, but now if STL gets in I am going to have a conflict because I LOVE the Cardnials but, I want Boston to break the curse!
The only PAC team I like out here is UCLA. I love to watch college football! My dream is one day they will have playoffs. Wouldn't that be awesome! I hate the rankings! The only fair way is to have playoffs. I think each bowl game could be a playoff match up. Then the final game could be the National Championship game. It would be like March Madness! Then the final game would be played the Saturday of Superbowl Weekend! Wouldn't that be great!?

I don’t have much to add in regards to football, except that my husband loves Randy Moss and also the Raiders.

On the other hand, I’ve had a love affair with the game of baseball since I was a little girl. The 80’s were the best for me in terms of baseball because of my home time favorites, Tommy Lasorda and the LA Dodgers.

I was extremely upset when the Dodger’s made the stupid mistake of trading future Hall of Famer: Mike Piazza and happy this time around that my Dodger’s finally seem to be on the right track in building a great team.

Neo – good point about the stats! Unfortunately I don’t share your passion for numbers because I work with numbers every day in my field of study (accounting).

I was surprised they got rid of Paul Lo Duca..it seems the Dodgers need just a couple good hitters, like our Steve Finley!

Well, as long as you share my disdain for the SF Giants.....

I loved the Dodgers when I was a little girl too! I could dtill name the whole line up of the Dodgers 1977-1980! After they traded Ron Cey and Steve Garvey I just haven't been into them. I have been following STL a lot more! I dislike the Giants! They have fans similar too the USC fans and Yankees. The Dodgers and the Giants hate each other.
Tomorrow USC plays the Washington Huskies. So tomorrow I am Huskie fan :)
Randy Moss is good, but Michael Vic is sensational!
I love college much more than pro, but the pro team I follow is Joe Montana's team SF 49er's!

Back to politics: Yesterday in the KFNX forum, Newcomb noted the Nickelodeon survey that approved Kerry by alargemargin. He asked whydoes the youth like Kery?
Here are results of another survey of youth thathas the opposite. 55% approved of Bush. Worthless trivia, but interesting....

http://www.channelone.com/e...

Actually Scholastic News does a poll as well, I heard that Bush one as well! I can't recall by how much.

That Nickelodeon survey was said to have picked the winner for the last 4 elections on their web site. I was reading a blog and it was brought up that would take us to 1988. Did Nickeloeon have a website in 1988? HMMMM...

I wonder whatever happened to Peacemaker? Maybe he moved to Austria to live with Zarq and all the other pinko commie hippies. :) (joking)

Here is the video "Stolen Honor" you can watch it for free. I suggest you watch it. This is one of the many reasons I don't want Kerry for my president.

http://www.buttondepress.co...

The graphic isn't great, but the message is clear.

So you'd rather have a guy who publicly spoke out in favor of Vietnam, yet would not go and serve was content to have others serve in his stead, while boasting of his family connections, after bailing out on his TANG duty. Wow, truly astounding!

>>Here is the video "Stolen Honor" you can watch it for free. I suggest you watch it. This is one of the many reasons I don't want Kerry for my president.

No I don't want a guy who met with the enemy THREE TIMES! HE IS A TRAITOR! HE is in the Vietnam war museum because he is a hero to them. He is just as bad as Jane Fonda. POWs suffered in prison because of him.

Again your quoting the CBS forged document story. Haven't we already covered this?? His Commanding officer said that wasn't true. Scroll up and read what I posted last time. It was like what Neocon said LAST time we covered this. When Clinton was running it didn't matter that he served but now it is a big deal? So you voted for Dole and GHW Bush because they were TRUE war heros right?

At least Bush has signed form 180, Kerry still has not. Hmm I wonder why?

Did you even watch the video? I watched F9/11, so come on, be brave and watch it. What are you afraid of ? I think you are afraid you won't be able to call these honorable soldiers Republican shills.

I read the SBVFT book and it was a lot of "he said, she said" that contradicted (a) the official record, (b) the folks that were actually on the boat w/Kerry and (c) the own words of O'Neill (a former Nixon operative) and Corsi (a avowed racist)

Fact checking Sinclair POW Story
http://mediamatters.org/ite...

Steve Gardner was on the boat with Kerry and sides with the Swift Vets. 250 Swift Vets dislike Kerry. 250! They are admirals, officers etc. At what point do you have to say to yourself what is wrong with this guy?
What specifically was contradicted in the siwfti book? Libs run around spewing out that propaganda, but I have not yet seen anything specific. But on the other hand Kerry's Christmas in Cambodia story has changed among other things. He also changed his first Puple Heart story and admitted it was self inflicted! So that is at least two stories Kerry has changed. O'Neill voted for Gore in 2000, and the official records haven't been released in their entirety because Kerry hasn't signed form 180.

I think it is alarming that the left is going to once again discredit Vets because they happen not to support Kerry. The POWs went through God knows what for our freedom! A lot of vets think Kerry is a traitor to them. He betrayed them. On the Dick Cavet Show Kerry said he saw many atrocities. John of Neil asked him where? John Kerry coundn't answer. John Kerry then asked John O Neil if he had burn villages? O"Neil said NO! I didn't see anything like that! So Kerry did claim that he saw and COMMITTED atrocities!

Kerry met with the enemy during a time of war. He met in Paris three times! He is in their museum as a friggin hero! The Viet Cong depended on the anti war movement to win! They hung on that much longer in hopes we would pull out from the political pressure! This resulted in American lives lost!
There is no way you could have read the book from cover to cover. He said, she said? Did you look at the pictures? The pictures show Kerry with the enemy! What were they having a picinic? Most of what Kerry said in the book was taken from his own Journal and everyone else sees it differently. Like O'Neill said, "Kerry always makes himself to look like the hero no matter what the circumstances are."

Talk about Democratic shills! Meda Matters is right up there. I read the link and they are only telling you half the story. Nobody disputes that in his testimony he was relaying testimony from other vets, but what they don't tell you is THEY WEREN"T VIETMAN VETS! Read "Stolen Valor"

I love how most libs accuse conservatives of watching only FOX News, and call everyone that disagreees with them Republican shills, then they quote you Media Matters, Daily KOS, and other LEFTIST websites!

I am not voting for Kerry because he is a traitor and a phony. He makes me sick! He went to Vietnam, not to serve his country, but for political reasons. He comes home and stuck his finger in the air and thought he could get more politcal gain from joing the anti war crowd, turns against his OWN band of brothers! Today he goes around acting like he is some big hunter killing a gooose for a photo op (Where are the animal right activists?). He is for the war when it was convenient, and then against the war when it was convenient. He has NO plan! HE is a PHONY!

Contrary to the disinformation fed you by ex-Nixon tool John O'Neill, the testimony of other vets are Vietnam Vets. Blatant lies.

Your assertions about aiding the enemy are paramount to "if al-Qaeda is against cancer then we should be for cancer".

Contradictions between these guys own words as evidenced from past records. Even O'Neill stated he never was in Cambodia, but yet Nixon tapes have him telling Nixon he went into Cambodia.

So, you have a choice - a man who went AWOL from his duty for a war he publicly supported and instead went off to sniff cocaine up his nose (he's never denied this). Or a man who did two tours of duty, was awarded medals for valor in a war he did not believe was justified and then courageously spoke out against when he returned.

That is, if you're going to make this the central issue of the campaign in lieu of the gross mismanagement Bush 43 has demonstrated the past 4 years - stock indexes down, first president since Hoover to finish with a net reduction in jobs, decline in median income, etc...

"Contradictions between these guys own words as evidenced from past records. Even O'Neill stated he never was in Cambodia, but yet Nixon tapes have him telling Nixon he went into Cambodia."
Are you sure about that? You might want to check your map and listen to the whole statement. The libs once again Michael Moore a tape recording out of context and neglect to play the whole statement which he says I was near the border. Plus this was after Kerry was home being a commie and peeing on the flag. I posted O'neill's whole quote on the Hannity and Colmes show;
O'NEILL: Alan, yes, they are, Alan. It's two different places, Alan. One place is along the Mekong River, right in the heart of the delta. The second place is on the west coast of Cambodia at a place called Ha Tien, where the boundary is right along that border.
Where Kerry was in Christmas of 1968 was on this river, the Mekong River. We got about 40 or 50 miles from the border. That's as close as we ran.
Later, Kerry went, and I went, to a place called Bernique's Creek — that was our nickname for it — at Ha Tien. That was a canal system that ran close to the border, but that wasn't at Christmas for Kerry. That was later for him.
So it's two separate places, Alan, and the story is correct.


" So, you have a choice - a man who went AWOL from his duty for a war he publicly supported and instead went off to sniff cocaine up his nose (he's never denied this). Or a man who did two tours of duty, was awarded medals for valor in a war he did not believe was justified and then courageously spoke out against when he returned. "

Naum, I think yo are confused! This years election is not between Clinton and Dole, but Bush and Kerry.

No one has proof that Bush snorted coke or went AWOL just MOORE lib fantasies. Besides Clinton was a draft dodging, womanizing, coke head, and I thought you guys thought that was pretty cool! If you can say that abut Bush, then I can say Kerry is a pimp and Thersa is a crack whore! Well he hasn't denied it.

The economy was going south at the end of the Clinton administration. And, HELLO 9/11 happened! I love the way you guys just forget about that. The economy is growing, 69.9% of American's are buying homes and unemployment is lower that in the Clinton years.

I love arguing with libs all they do is call everyone liars or Repulican shills. IT is pretty common knowledge that the "Winter Soldier" testimonies were frauds. Branch out and read something other that the Daily Kos and quit discrediting men who have fought bravely for this country, not for hopes of being president one day, but because they love democracy.

At least with Bush you know who he is and what he stands for. Not some phony who throws a ball like a girl out on the tarmac everyday, shooting geese for photo ops, having his wife walk around with beers to prove he is a "real live boy". Who does this Pinoccio think he is?

oh yeah, I didn't make Vietnam central to this campaign, Kerry did.

I'm not getting in this Vietnam issue; but it's interesting you would comment on our choice-a cokehead, or a twotour vet.
If Irecall, Naum, you voted for a schmuck who ran off to England to avoid service, rather than two boafide veterans of World War II. You said you had no choice, so you hesitantly voted for him. Your choice was clear then (on that issue alone).

The way I see this, If Vets have a problem with Kerry and the way he served, I'm not going to call anyone liars. How can you? You're picking and choosing Naum. "He said She said." That's usually all it is with these political books. Their word against Kerry's and his witnesses.

I'm up too early, did any of this shit make sense?

Yes! it makes perfect sense to me.
EIGHT more days to go. I can't wait until it is all over.

Well, your point about Clinton v. Dole is a good one.

However, I will say that Clinton, like Cheney and a whole host of others, received a valid educational deferment and hasn't had subterfuge and deceit surround the issue. Still, if all else was equal, Dole > Clinton (and Bush 41 > Clinton, though there's questions about Bush 41 commendations), if you were a one issue voter.

I've already voted and am looking forward to post-election time. If Bush is reelected it will be bad for the country, but life goes on and we'll make the best of it. I felt my voting hand was forced with Bush & company shitting all over the constitution – pre-emptive wars, blurring of church & state, dismantling of education, economic malaise, assault on civil rights, etc.... If Kerry is elected and performs no better, than I shall vote Republican (or third party) in 2008.

If Kerry is elected, not much may change – it will still be a Republican controlled House & Senate.

Kerrylove - I will check out your link sometime this afternoon and give you my comments later. Let's see if your little video has any real substance.

Come on Naum,you're to smart to vote for Kerry, especially after this phoney weapons cache story the dems, CBS, UN, and the NYT concocted! Another phony story from the left. I guess they enjoy the feeling of having egg all over their faces!

Blurring of church and state? What about Kerry making stump speeches at churches? Dismantling education? Assualt on civil rights?! OOoh yeah, you mean how Bush gave women and African Americans the highest cabinet positions in the land?

Kerrylove - your mini movie was pretty informative. I feel pretty bad for the solders interviewed on film whom had to suffer at the hands of the enemy; however, there were clips in that movie, particularly when John Kerry was speaking in front of the senate committee that were taken out of context. If memory services my right, Chris Matthews from Hardball pointed out a few weeks/months ago how Republican’s had cut/paste John Kerry’s testimony to make it seem like he was accusing Vietnam soldiers of committing atrocities when an actuality he was simply conveying to the committee what numerous soldiers had conveyed to him. There is nothing wrong in standing up to state that you are not in agreement with the government.

Your presentation by the way makes me more adamant about trying to persuade my brother to ditch the war if God forbid he is called up to serve in Iraq. I sure has hell do not want my brother to suffer like those poor soilders did in Vietnam.

How are you dealing with the Cardinals defeat?

Phony weapons cache story?

http://kstp.com/article/sto...
http://www.talkingpointsmem...
http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/s...

Yeah, blast Josh @ TPM for being a partisan, but he's posted a transcript of a David Kay interview, not exactly a vehement opponent of the Bush administration.

HMX/RDX present AFTER invasion. The administration has been sorrowful in its excuse making. Even if they were removed before the invasion (after the U.S. ordered the exit of third party personnel), it still shows inept decision making not to safeguard these spots.

Another illustration of how awful this war is being waged. For a good read by a 20+ year veteran of DI & intelligence, I recommend a read of *Imperial Hubris*. I'll post a review tomorrow, but it is an excellent read and insightful even if you don't agree with this veteran's takes.

I am doing ok with the Cards defeat because the Red Sox haven't won in so long I was glad they did. They really deserved it! The way they came back against the Yankees was inspiring! I am actually more upset that Notre Dame lost to BC last week. :(

As far as the clips go no one said he wasn't talking about the testiominies of the "vets" the problem is that all his info was false. Most of the Vets that gave Kerry their stories were not Vietnam Vets at all. The whole "Winter Soldiers" testimony was a fraud. Ask yourself this, why did Kerry and his people go to great lengths to get Stolen Honor off the air ? They even went as far as the FCC to censor it. Kerry hurt those POWs by betraying them. Those men were tortured for Kerry's reckless statements.

Thank you for watching it! I am impressed! :)

Naum,

obviously you hadn't seen this;
http://www.foxnews.com/stor...
Major Ausin Pearson has debunked that arguement pretty much.

Even if it was true, I thought that you guys have been telling us this WHOLE time that Saddam was not dangerous? Kerry of course will hop on anything to further himself politically. Just like he did in 1971 to the Vietnam Vets. He blasts our armed forces again today for political gain!

What do you, the left, UBL and Al-queda have in common? You all HATE Bush and want Kerry to be president!
Even UBL is quoting the Michael Moore movie! I bet Moore takes comfort in aiding the enemy. LOL

No, he didn't… …he didn't even confirm that those were the explosives from Al QaQaa. And the interview I saw on CNN with the "demolitions expert", it was stated that he didn't know where they came from and he didn't see any seals (which were obviously visible from video from TV report).

Osama Bin Laden’s video tape message to the American people made me feel like he was laughing at us, laughing at President Bush. He was basically rubbing it our faces. In the meantime all our resources are stuck in Iraq. Unbelievable!!!! I just don’t understand how this MOTHER F’ER he is still walking the earth.

Well, ask Bill Clinton who was offered UBL THREE times!
In his tape he endorsed Kerry and quoted Michael Moore! So you guys are on the same side as the terrorists! maybe we should change the name of the Democratic party to Al Dumba. Threy want Kerry like I told you guys all along! A vote for Kerry is a vote for Al queda!

Naum,
They destroyed 250 tons of something, besides like Paul Bremer (who was actually in Iraq) said that there is no way a band of terrorist could move that amount of explosives when we had control of the roads and airspace! It boils down to all the armed forces in Iraq say one thing and the Kerry Camp, NYT,CBS and all the other "Usual Suspects" who were not in Iraq say something else!

Maybe the weapons were moved out of Iraq into Syria before the war (like I have been saying all along).
If you find it easy to believe these weapons were taken by terrorists under our troops noses, than why do you not believe there were never any WMDs? I thought Iraq was a place of solitude and happiness before the bad ole USA came in and destroyed it? I thought that Saddam was a nice man? There was no danger right? Isn't that what you guys have said all along? We went in for oil? Why is Kerry so worried about these "dangerous weapons" all of a sudden? So was Iraq a dangerous place or not?

Kerrylove -
Your best defense is evoking Bill Clinton? Let me remind you that 9/11 happened while George Bush was in office. What has George Bush done to get Osama Bin Landen? Is it my imagination or did I hear George Bush say he doesn’t spend much time worrying about Osama Bin Landen and were he might be. Does that make you fell safe? We just had Osama laugh in our face and the truth of the matter is that George Bush is an embarrassment to this country and Bush has failed to put much effort in finding Osama. Stop with all your lies. Osama Bin Laden did not give out an endorsement. That is just a straight out lie. If anything I believe Osama is hoping George Bush will win because it’s to his convenience. George Bush is despised by many all over the world and that favors Osama’s cause.

EIGHT YEARS! You can't blame a guy four seven months! There was a pattern established by the Clinton ADMIN that we would do nothing after each attack. 9/11 was planned way before Bush ever took office.

Why do you think we went to Afghanstan? Much effort we are still searching for him. Why didn't Clinton get him after UBL attacked this country Clinton DID NOTHING! The Sudanese offered UBL to us THREE TIMES! Clinton told the world that America will do nothing to fight terror!

UBL said in his own words that IF WE ELECT BUSH he will attack again! What does that tell you? He endorsed Kerry! We aren't despised all over the world! The countries that don't like us are Arab/terrorist countries and France, Germany and Russia(all had deals with Saddam) UBL took things right of Moore's movie! You and UBL are both quoting his movie! UBL is probably laughing at all the left morons who will actually, like sheep, do what he says to and elect Kerry!

I thought UBL sounded just like a member of the Democratic party!

You are willing to excuse the President’s failures and I am not. As someone who is in charge of leading people in the field of accounting, I can tell you that George Bush lacks leadership skills. He surrounds himself with people whom always tell him YES and never contradict him. When he delegates, he does not follow-up. He does not elicit the cooperation of others. He does not listen very well and above all he places his own needs above all others. Those attributes my dear are not good leadership skills.

I already argued with you about Clinton and I am not going to do it again because you simply do not get it; however, I would like you to prove to me where and when did Clinton say to the world that American will do nothing to fight terror. Prove it!!!

The following comment: UBL said in his own words that IF WE ELECT BUSH he will attack again - Is just another one of your lies. I saw plenty of reports in regards to the video taped message (Hardball, Countdown and plenty of right winged radio talk shows) and not one those resources have reported what you have in your little twisted mind misinterpreted.

How can you defend President Bush after he admitted that he doesn’t spend much time worrying about Osama Bin Landen and where he might be???? By the way, the fact that he admitted this little Freudian slip was not just reported by Mr. Moore, it’s been reported on plenty of other news networks like MSNBC specifically after the debates.

I have proved it over and over again about Clinton. Maybe you don't get it. He didn't tell the world he would do nothing, He did nothing! Tell me what did he do? What did Clinton do about terrorism? YOU PROVE WHAT HE DID! Why didn't he do anything to protect us? He knew in 1998 that Saddam was a threat. He chose not to do anthing because he was afraid it would tarnish his image. Here is proof they he was offered UBL and didn't, he tries to lie his way out of it but they have a recording of him.
http://www.newsmax.com/arch...

UBL said it was in the American people's hands not to elect Bush. What do you think that means/ Even your buddies over on the DU are paniced that it doesn't look good for Kerry. UBL has taken lines right out of the Kerry Camp's playbook;
http://www.zombietime.com/o...
You are the one who is full of lies, you watch a Michael Moore movie and then go around acting as if it is the real deal. Now the ememy is going arond quoting the same
thing. Thanks to that fat freak Micahel Moore!

HELLO! We are still searching for UBL in Afghanstan! We had a war in Afghansatan and won, they just had an election! Were are still searching for UBL! What about the unabomber? It took us a long time to capture him! It is hard to catch one man. We have been so close several times, but if Clinton just did his job 9/11 might not of ever happened. He should have took UBL form the Sudanese.

Here are some articles;

These are reasons I hate Kerry
http://www.25thaviation.org...

A leader is someone who takes a position and sticks with it. What is Kerry's plan. At least you know where you stand with Bush. You know what he stands for. UBL and the terrorists hate Bush! They want us to vote Kerry! What does that tell you!? I want a President who fights for this country not asking other countries permission before he acts on behalf of us (global test).
Here is some stuff on UBL and Michael Moore's changing position on him, scroll down. You should actually read the whole thing.
http://www.davekopel.com/Te...
This one is written by a seventeen year old.
http://www.larryelder.com/9...

How can you defend President Bush after he admitted that he doesn’t spend much time worrying about Osama Bin Landen and where he might be???? By the way, the fact that he admitted this little Freudian slip was not just reported by Mr. Moore, it’s been reported on plenty of other news networks like MSNBC specifically after the debates.

This was taken out of context why don't you watch the rest of the clip? I bet MSNBC didn't show you the whole News conference did they?

You need to prove to me that Kerry would be a great leader. HE HAS NO PLAN! These are dangerous times, we are not living in a pre 9/11 world anymore! Kerry views terrorist as a nuisance. I want a president who does what it takes to PROTECT US. You guys listen to a bunch of LIES from the left. Doesn't it concern you that the same rehtoric that the left tells you is what the enemy is saying? You are essentially agreeing with the terrorist. What the hell is that?

/http://www.mudvillegazette....
Just one of saddam's throne photos. Hmmm.. but I thought he was a peaceful man?

Read this about what was editied out of UBL's tape;
http://www.nypost.com/news/...

pay close attention to the part where UBL mentions that us hunting him down is hurting al Queda.

How do you know? Do you know Arabic? Did the newspaper (NY Post) get a copy or are they "relaying" PR puffery?

Now you are questiong the New York Post too????????????

Why don't you write the New York Post and ask them. LOL

kerrylove -
What I keep on hearing from you is all just a big excuse and blame to everyone else but George Bush. I am not buying it and I am not going to point out facts that I already outlined for you in previous conversations. You can say all you want about Michael Moore or Chris Matthews or MSNBC but the fact is that it’s your President’s fault and no else that he is caught saying stupid shit that is embarrassing to the Presidency and the American People. The fact is that you have a tendency to misinterpret information and not matter what I say, not mater what my sources are, they will never be good enough for you because they don’t always come from a conservative position. Unless they are your resources, everyone else is lying and full of shit. I am not buying your position.

1. Only source cited is a nefarious "Official sources…"

2. No other media outlet is reporting that there is "unedited" video that was not shown, including all of the major networks (including FOX) and the broadcast company (Al-Jazeera) that initially procured the videotape.

3. No other media outlets are even reporting the story.

So it would seem, as of the moment I write this, the story is based on the whisperings of an anonymous "official source"…

Good Gates! You wouldn't believe satellite imagery, testimony of weapons inspectors favorable to Bush administration, eyewitness testimony and previous journalist accounts on another story, yet an anonymous whisper registers 100% capability? Wow.

They aren't an excuse but facts, not Michael Moore BS or HEH, Cris Mattews (who wroked for the Carter Admin). You say I misinterpt, but your the one going around quoting Micahle Moore movies! I do look at Left sites and hear their opinions. I'm a teacher, it's unavoidable for me. I get the NEA magizine sent to my house. I just don't buy the rhetoric.

I bet you didn't even read the articles I sent you. If you want to go through your life with liberal blinders on, go right ahead. You guys always accuse us of not being "open minded" but then you only believe your liberal sources. Isn't that being a little hypocrtical? You can't be a conservative and not be exposed to liberalism. Its everywhere; movies, books, tv, MSM etc. But where do you look to get the conservative point of view?

Well you drank the Kool Aide and want a reason to hate Bush. At this point if he discoverd the cure for AIDS you would still find a reason to HATE him.

Your the one who is panicing about this Naum, So call the New York Post, you act like I made it up or something!

http://belmontclub.blogspot...

http://wizbangblog.com/arch...

http://www.truthlaidbear.co...

Here are a couple more republican shill sites to look at if you dare.
I know it might ruin your whole day to know that UBL is running scared because that might make America/Bush look good now wouldn't it :)

'Good Gates! You wouldn't believe satellite imagery, testimony of weapons inspectors favorable to Bush administration, eyewitness testimony and previous journalist accounts on another story, yet an anonymous whisper registers 100% capability? Wow.'

I could say the same to you. I have given you testimonies from people who have actually been in Iraq, Intel from around the globe, and testimonies that favored Bush, but you just threw all those to the side deciding that anyone that didn't agree wth the DailyKos or Michael Moore was a shill to the right and part of a vast rightwing conspiracy!

CALatina wrote:
"The fact is that you have a tendency to misinterpret information and not matter what I say, not mater what my sources are, they will never be good enough for you because they don’t always come from a conservative position. Unless they are your resources, everyone else is lying and full of shit. I am not buying your position."

This is the curse of partisanship. This is the fabulous game of politics. Hey, I just quotes Salon in one of recent posts! Pretty good, huh?

Kerrysucks! One more day to go!

ONE MORE DAY...........

Sorry to interrupt, but I've got call 'Bullshit' when I see it.

This line set off buzzers:
'If anything I believe Osama is hoping George Bush will win because it’s to his convenience.'

Let me see if I get this right: During the Clinton years, Osama and his merry men were directly responsible for killing 800+ Americans worldwide. They ran training camps that turned out an estimated 2,000 mindless followers willing to do his bidding, including piloting 4 jets into buildings. They were well protected by a government that supported their cause and they had various charity fronts taking in millions from the faithful each year.

Since Bush took office they don't have a place on Earth that can be considered safe. Their training camps have been destroyed, their friendly government has been overthrown, heck, and even their buddies in Pakistan have turned on them. Over $50 million dollars has been seized and hundreds of charity fronts have been shutdown. 2/3rds of Osama's 'friends' have either been captured or killed.

But somehow, we're to believe that OBL and his merry men are praying for a Bush victory?

Tell us all something, CALatina, what exactly, and specifically, is Kerry going to differently then Bush in apprehending OBL? And would his capture end terrorism world-wide?

Bush was smart. He isolated Bin Laden physically and politically. Killing him would have made him a martyr to the Islamfacist cause and would not have stopped any terrorist acts. Furthermore, without such friendly states as Iraq or Pakistan, not to mention a $50 million dollar bounty on his head, OBL is boxed in. It's not as if OBL is living the life of a deposed dictator on the French Rivera. He's squatting in a cave somewhere when he takes a dump, hoping his pals don't turn him in for the money while he's wiping his posterior with his hand.

Bin Laden's tape this past weekend proves one thing: He is desperate. If he wasn't, he'd remain a ghost, a bogeyman to the west and a sign of America's lack of resolve to defeat him. He'd remain in the shadows as we Americans beat ourselves silly with stupid accusations about who 'lied about WMD'. But instead, like some rabid groundhog, he perked his head out of his whole to remind us that the fearful winter we've faced fro the last 3 years is not turning to spring anytime soon.

But what am I talking about? It's more important to find out who finished his Texas National Guard training some 30 years ago, isn't it?

Half of me wants Kerry to win, so I can sit here saying "Yeah, where are all those big plans you said he had?" But then the reality of a Kerry/Edwards victory reminds that Kerry has never supported a strong America, and has always wanted a weak and impotent position for us in the world.

Look, you vote for whom you want. What I want for my children is a safe place they can live. If it means pissing off the French or being the bastards the world over, so be it. Doing the right thing doesn't always make you popular, it just makes you right.

AMEN!

God that was well said Loose Cannon! Well done!

Amen!! We will prevail. This country will continue its course of once again ridding the world of evil.
Kerry has attempted to call the current Bush's foreign policy approach a failure, compared with Reagan's and H.W. Bush's policies. Interestingly, he opposed both of them as well.
The difference between the world of Reagan and the world today, is that there are very few countries with a conservative slant, as opposed to 20 years ago (Canada, England, USSR soviet atellites that would be liberated, with the help of aggressive policies supported by Reagan). It seems today there are none. The UN is run by socialists with no spine for action; even former satellites in Eastern Europe seem bent towards a detente style approach; the EU is finally dragging Britain, our last hope to the "dark side". With the exception of few, Canada is very liberal. Russia, after getting a taste of its own, now supports the US, but this is admittedly precarious (which way will Russia now go as far as Democratic reform).
In short, if we have to act with the coalition we do have (which is just fine and almost equal to 1990 levels), so be it.
Kerry wouldn't get any help from France, or Germany, meaning, a swift pullout to save face, allowing the terrorist hornets to nest again and fester. Now that they're flying around chaotically, we can kill them easily.
Go Bush!!!!

I think Bush has done brillant with the war on terror. He has liberated two arabic nations that were a threat to us. He has drawn the terrorists to a place away from America and we a fighting them there instead of here. You have to proactive with terrorist! Let's let them all gather in one central location and then kill them!
We made more progress in the war against terror than under the Clinton admin. As far as I'm concerned the blood of 9/11 rests on Clinton's sholders! And he knows it, that's why he sent in the "Handberger"!

Neocon!
YAHOOOOO!

Hello to all my Republican buddies. Unfortunately for me this is very sad day. An email I received from a friend in Spain stated that in many European areas, people were holding prayer vigils hoping George Bush would be voted out of office. Unfortunately, their efforts proved to be fruitless. Anyway, I can respect that the American People have spoken. George Bush is what they want and George Bush for better or worse is what we will all get.
Congratulations!!!!

CALatina,

That was very gracious! Thank you very much! Even though we don't agree, it is so impressive that as divided as we are, our system works! We may not agree about politics, but hey, there is still baseball, right? :)

CALatina, you're a refreshing voice of open and passionate dialogue. Can I ask you a question? Who would you have preferred in this last electionand who do you think the Dems should look for the next time around.
I'll tell you this; I think Barak Obama will be a formidable candidate in...oh 12 years, or so (needs to get some Political dirt under his nails). He reminds me of a young Alan Keyes (Keye,s BTW, is now a Pat Buchanon of the right; that is, all we can do when we listen to him is say,WHUT???). But Obama is just remarkable as a speaker. If he can stay away from the angry Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton crowd, he'll go places.
Anyway, that's my take.

I really appreciate your compliments, especially because they come from you. Thank you very much.

Despite what people may think, I have to state that I LOVE THE CLINTONS. For me, there would nothing better than to have Hillary run in 2008. Aside from my own mother, I have tremendous respect for Hillary as a women and to be quite honest, she is an inspiration to me. I am realistically aware; however, that the chances of a women ever being elected to the White House are simply impossible. The Democrats would be wasting their time if ever she was elected as a presidential candidate. This country is not ready to see a women in the highest office of the world; however, that little dream for me is worth holding on to.

I completely agree with you that Barak Obama is amazing. He is one of those individuals that transcends all political lines. His speech at the Democratic convention was amazing. He is intelligent, he speaks well and most importantly he comes across as someone who is honest and does not give you bullshit. Barak has a great future in politics but as you stated, he needs to keep his priorities straight and not fall into the angry roles your outlined.

I also like Edwards, because he has a lot o charisma; however, I believe he needs to regroup and tone it down a bit because there are times in which you can clearly see the lawyer in him. When he speaks and starts to get into a groove, his tongue starts to move side to side in a very strange and cocky sort of manner. Did you notice that during the convention and the debate? I believe that has a tendency to turn people off because he comes across as way to aggressive and maybe even fake.

What about you? Who would you like to see run in 2008 on the Republican side? If I had my pick I would choose John Mckain. I really like him. He is honest and he has some Regan like qualities about him.

Kerrylove - you are soooo right! We still have basebal1.

Yes indeed! Since I couldn't convince you to vote Republican, do you think I could convince you to like football? Who knows maybe you will even like the Irish! (that's Notre Dame)

Oh, a little anecdote for you guys. On election day I asked my first graders who they would vote for. They had to put their heads on their desk, not peek, and put their thumb up for who they wanted. Nine voted for Bush, 5 voted for Kerry. I had six students that didn't vote for either, so I asked them why they didn't vote. One little guy said he wanted George Washington so the other 5 agreed.
The final tally Bush 9, Kerry 5, and George Washington 6!

CALatina: I don't think I agree with you on the point about a woman Pres. Contrary to perhaps popular opinion, I think women are extremely tough, stubborn, quick thinking and when forced to- not one to cross, orpiss off (believe me, these are compliments).

Margaret Thatcher, Golda Meir(sp), Catherine the Great (she went to war against the turks twice to expand the empire), Elizabeth (her leadership and strength contributed to Spains humiliation). Even Hatshepsut from the ancient Egyptian world did a pretty good job(she didn't go out and conquer, but she kept the empire together forsome 20 years). A good woman pres. would HAVE to be a hard, stubborn bitch(again, no disrespect, this is actually a compliment).

Having said that, I don't think Hillary would come close to capturing the south. Why? She moved to New York to capture a senate seat, essentially following the footsteps of RFK. I also don't think she would be independent enough when it comes to military and national security. It won't work.
Condi might make a valid female president, but I'm alittle biased.

If she does run, I find it hard not to include at least McCain, or Rudy on the ticket. I feel for McCain, but I don't think he'd satisfy the GOP population well enough. Then again, it'll be good for him to experience the lunacy of his campaign bill first hand.

Naum, there's another shithead using my name. What would you suggest? If I actually signed up on AZPlace, would that help? Please advise, I don't want some angry loser abusing my name.

This country has a long way when it relates to religion, race and sexual orientation. With that said, I must state that we are making progress, we are more tolerant and as I stated before, I hope to see a women president in the White House in my life time.

Even if I feel devastated that John Kerry lost, I must state that I am thankful that the controversy brought on by the current administration has made me and many others more aware of government. My hope is that I can inspire, young people, especially young Hispanics to feel passionate about school, passionate about government and most importantly passionate about their vote.

Had I known I enjoyed politics was this interesting while I was in school, I would never have pursed a degree in Business Accounting.

Kerrylove - Cute school story!!! My sister is a teacher for LAUSD. Do you work for LAUSD also?

Yes, if you did register, nobody would be able to "fill in that name" – a post error would result.

>>If I actually signed up on AZPlace, would that help? Please advise, I don't want some angry loser abusing my name.

CALatina,
Thanks! I work For Covina Valley School District.

Are you a CPA? One of my best friends husbands is an account but never took the CPA test.

You have such a mature attitude aboout the election! I remember in 1992 when Clinton won I was devastated also. but life does go on.

I really don't care for the Hillary (that's just me) I love Condi, she is so articulate! Sharp as a tack!

I listened to Obama on "This Week", VERY IMPRESSED! I really like him!

The same thing happened to me some Jackass used my name! Kerrylost(sucks)! I am thinking of a new name anyway.

Closing thread, can continue debate here:
http://azplace.net/index.ph...